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View Full Version : Is there a market for a highly original replica?



simon
08-05-05, 11:26 PM
Hi guys,

I'd like your opinions.
Would anyone here be interested in a highly accurate copy of a 427 cobra?
This would be a massively strong twin round tube chassis, Highly accurate (and strong) fibreglass bodyshell, with tubular steel supports around all openings (strong enough to jump up and down on if you so desire) fibreglass footboxes (as per original) original style suspension.
The car would be priced MUCH lower than the Kirkham cars, yet would still be an exact copy of the original (much like Shelby's CSX4000 series)

Simon

mylesdw
08-05-05, 11:31 PM
I am sure there is a market for just such a car but isn't the Crendon (and possibly AK) already in this market niche?

simon
08-05-05, 11:33 PM
Crendon, not sure how accurate the chassis is, AK, no very different
See pic...

simon
08-05-05, 11:40 PM
(ran out of editing time)
The Crendon uses Jaguar running gear, the AK is very different, and uses a ladder frame chassis.
I'm talking about a replica where all the parts are interchangable with an original (or Kirkham come to that)

mylesdw
08-05-05, 11:50 PM
If I was building another, I would be interested in such a beast. The accurate reproduction chassis appeals. The body with bonded in steel subframe is pretty much what the RAM has and certainly works very well.

rich
09-05-05, 09:31 AM
Just one thought has occurred to me.
How many compromises would have to be made to get it through SVA, so could a true replica ever be feasible for sale in the UK?

simon
09-05-05, 09:50 AM
I guess there are compromises and compromises. Depends how far you want to go?
The Hawk/Kirkham cars seem to get through the process without losing any of their "originality" as must AC cars offerings.
There's nothing inherently "un sva able" about the original type chassis/shell only minor details like switches/overriders/bonnet and boot catches (pretty much the same as any cobra replica really) and they can easilly be changed after SVA...although I'm sure nobody here would do that ! :angel:

Pictus
09-05-05, 10:04 AM
so was there a point to the original question
im building a dax and trying to go for the period feal to the car but i would like to see something more like the real thing and since i have a spare ford fe kicking around id like to use it in a better representaion of the original so um yeah to answer the question um YES i would be very interested

Warren

smash
09-05-05, 11:19 AM
Isn't there something happening with the new MOT regs that may prevent post SVA 'part swapping'? May cause problems with originality...

FatBoy
09-05-05, 11:54 AM
Come on Simon, tell us more.
What, when and how much ? :)

Cheers
Paul

Migge
09-05-05, 03:24 PM
Can't see the question.

Do you mean a alu body like the Kirkham and the original frame? We have Crendon with original frame and GRP body and Kirkham/Hawk with original frame and alu body as options for the original freaks. Do you think of a better price with the same quality?

Migge, with a car not original at all.

smash
09-05-05, 03:33 PM
Migge - I often find myself looking at your gallery, not really a fan of blue cobs but your Magnum is just totally stunning! A great argument for none originals :thumb: ;)

Migge
09-05-05, 03:48 PM
Thanks a lot.
I just love the curves of the body together with a stiff frame and very low to the ground.

If i had to chose an original body I think I would take a 289 FIA with Kidney bone wheels and a Ford engine and lowered to the ground also.

FatBoy
09-05-05, 06:40 PM
Migge,

"Kidney bone wheels" ???

smash
09-05-05, 06:53 PM
Yeah, you know? *sings* "Your kidney bone's connected to your....diff bone, your diff bone's connected to your prop bone....etc"

sorry........


I'll shut up now.......


It's cos my car's back on the road i'm excited and that..... :rolleyes:

Migge
09-05-05, 07:01 PM
Sorry,

Kidney bean wheels:

http://www.americanracing.com/wheels/details.asp?wheelid=122&name=Salt%20Flat%20Paint%20Custom%20Offset&style=470&desc=2-%20piece%20alloy,%20painted%20center,%20polished%2 0ri<br%20/>m&section=V

simon
09-05-05, 07:05 PM
Migge,

The Crendon isn't an original frame, it's a twin round tube chassis (and very nice at that) but not as per original (least not from what I understand and from the pics I've seen)
As I said in an earlier post, it's an original chassis (so much that parts are interchangable with both the Kirkham and original) with a VERY high quality glassfibre body.
If there's enough interest, it MAY be something I'll put into limited production. All chassis will be jig built with laser cut and CNC technology, the bodies will be hand laid with three layers of 2oz. matt followed by a layer of 6oz. cloth and a gel coat finish.
The only places the car will deviate from the original will be the rear diff (probably using an XJ40 diff) and the wheel spindles (again probably jaguar attached to copies of the original uprights)
This is just due to price and availability of original components.
The car would ideally be built with K/O wheels, but I guess most people would want bolt on's
There is some very interesting history with this project (can't really divulge it until I have the ok from all concerned) it would be a shame to let it slip.
As I said, anyone interested, let me kow.
Thanks guys.

Simon

David Large
09-05-05, 11:29 PM
I guess there is a market but I also guess it is very small.
Most people who buy a replica Cobra seek something that looks about right, will give a good performance and is value for money.
Very few customers would pay a lot more money for a level of authenticity that would only be recognisable by a few people.
Would I pay another 60,000 for an aluminium bodied Kirkham 289........I think not. If I had that sort of money I would be in the "real" original market.

Adrian472
09-05-05, 11:45 PM
Would I pay another 60,000 for an aluminium bodied Kirkham 289........I think not. If I had that sort of money I would be in the "real" original market.[/quote:e2065de904]

I think you lost track of the current prices genuine cars go for these days, try adding another 100k+ to the price of a Kirkham 289 for a upto date figure!!! The last 289 slabside i seen sold for 175K.
Adrian

Adrian472
09-05-05, 11:50 PM
simon
speak to these guys, they make exactly what your talking about,
www.pms-cars.com
Adrian

David Large
10-05-05, 06:30 AM
Would I pay another 60,000 for an aluminium bodied Kirkham 289........I think not. If I had that sort of money I would be in the "real" original market.

I think you lost track of the current prices genuine cars go for these days, try adding another 100k+ to the price of a Kirkham 289 for a upto date figure!!! The last 289 slabside i seen sold for 175K.
Adrian[/quote:048247adfa]

Wow; I am sure you must be right, Classic and Sportscar price guide for a 289 talks about 100k - 125k but if there is any sort of history to the car then I know prices/values can rocket.
However my point is that not many people will pay an extra 60+ k for an aluminium replica over a fibreglass one......will they? I don't know how many Kirkhams have been sold.

FatBoy
10-05-05, 09:20 AM
Kirkham sell as many cars as they can make, which I think is a bout 2-3 cars a week. Now if that is "not many", I accept your point, but I think that is a hell of a load of high-value Cobra replicas. I think they are getting close to their 500th car, which must put them pretty near the top of the league on numbers alone i would have thought.
You may also have the wrong idea on prices for a Kirkham. Their basic kit starts at just under $40k, which is about 22k+VAT. That price includes pretty much everything except engine, gearbox and diff. It even includes tyres, pin-drive Halibrands, full interior etc. Also bear inmind that absolutely everything is brand new and their are no donor items required.
I personally think that is pretty good value.
Cheers
Pau

simon
10-05-05, 09:37 AM
The only way to get a Kirkham in the UK is through Gerry Hawkridge and his prices are 19K for a body chassis unit, with the more advanced car (needing just engine/box ec) at over 50K !!
Simon

smash
10-05-05, 11:11 AM
I'll be honest, I don't understand going to all the trouble of making an accurate chasis and then dumping a glass body on - it sort of defeats the object.

I'd guess for most people the illusion is usually made or broken by the external visible features of the car, so maybe it would be more desirable to have the exterior as accurate as possible - let's face it, not many people get to see your chasis. I just wonder whether a glass body can ever look bang on for the alloy original - the Crendon is reverred as being an extremely accurate body and yet I look at pictures of real Shelbys and also Kirkhams (who supply Shelby) and they don't look right, to me anyways. it always seems to be the wheel arches that look wrong.

What about a hybrid body? Perhaps somehow a fibre body could be made with bonded on alloy arches/arch lips and complete alloy bonnet and boot lid for those close inspections where everyone goes to feel the wheel arch rim and checks the bonnet for rivets etc. Surely these smaller parts could be pressed and avoid all that time consuming hand beating?

David Large
10-05-05, 12:02 PM
Kirkham sell as many cars as they can make, which I think is a bout 2-3 cars a week. Now if that is "not many", I accept your point, but I think that is a hell of a load of high-value Cobra replicas. I think they are getting close to their 500th car, which must put them pretty near the top of the league on numbers alone i would have thought.
You may also have the wrong idea on prices for a Kirkham. Their basic kit starts at just under $40k, which is about 22k+VAT. That price includes pretty much everything except engine, gearbox and diff. It even includes tyres, pin-drive Halibrands, full interior etc. Also bear inmind that absolutely everything is brand new and their are no donor items required.
I personally think that is pretty good value.
Cheers
Pau

That's an impressive number of cars.....there are obviously more people prepared to spend that sort of money on a replica than I thought.
My perception of the cost of a Kirkham is based on asking Gerry Hawkridge the price of the 289 he had on his stand at Stoneleigh....75k was the answer.

plod
10-05-05, 12:24 PM
I think when I went to vist Gerry, which was probably exactly 3 yrs ago, he quoted 75k for an aluminium 427 with a ford 427 in it.

Way to go I think........

FatBoy
10-05-05, 01:51 PM
I have a lot of time and respect for Gerry and the cars he turns out are first class.
However, there is a significant markup on his prices. I you want a completed car and you have the budget, I don't think you could do much better than buying from Gerry, but if budget is an issue, and let's be fair, for the vast majority of us, me included, it is perhaps the over-riding factor, there may be more cost effective ways to get into a Kirkham. :thumb:
There is nothing to stop anyone buying a Kirkham in the US at US Dollar rates and shipping it here yourself. And remember, the current exchange rates make pretty much anything from the US very good value.

Paul

simon
10-05-05, 09:45 PM
Ah well, Looks like nobody's interested. I guess it's probably best to shelve the project.
Thanks for your replies.
Simon

FatBoy
10-05-05, 10:08 PM
Simon,
Don't be discouraged. There will always be a market for a quality product at the right price. The likes of AK, Kirkham and Crendon make a good business out of it so there is ne reason why you couldn't.
If you product turns out to be better or more cost effective or both, then so much the better for you. If you believe you have a good product and that you can produce it at the right price, then go for it.
Good luck.

Paul