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View Full Version : Please help, some quick advise needed for a new person.



mini16v
12-06-05, 05:38 PM
Hi there,

after trawling the net I had only just found this site, first one with a forum! Unfortunate as It may seem I am a vauxhall/mini owner usually (I have a 16v vauxhall engine in my mini) along with a few other interesting vehicles. However, I have just been offered a cobra kit car. This is where I need some help.

I'm going in completely blind, other than the fact it has had in excess of 30 grand spent on it. Everything is new, including the engine which is a 427 is it???? original motor? Its 80% finished and I am looking to buy it to finish it off. I have no idea what kit it is, etc etc whether things are right or wrong or indifferent.

I'm sorry to sound so vague but what should I look for to know what type of kit it is? Its curerently unregistsered so I presume It ca go on an 05 plate if I prove all items on the car are new?

The main question is, how do I distinguish a cheap kit from an expensive one... I'm going to look at it hopefully tommorow night, the owner has alot of money and has just given up with it.

Any advise would be a massive help.

Thanks..

Rich

Clarkson
12-06-05, 05:41 PM
Hello and welcome, some pics would be nice???

mini16v
12-06-05, 05:46 PM
I haven't even seen it myself yet!!!

Is there any key signs to look for to distinguish between cheap and expensive...?

Its quite a lot fo money for something that isn't finished, although it has bill with it that total over 30 K. The engine alone was 10K.

Rich

Grease Monkey
12-06-05, 07:14 PM
30 grand would sound quite high for an unfinished car. Must be a bloody good example of the marque. (Full paint, weather gear etc)

Find out what it is first:

GD, Dax, AK and Crendon are the big jag based (expensive) players on the UK market

Then theres the GD Euro, & Dax De-Dion which are more expensive still, but will get you a new 05 plate.

Other marques are Pilgrim, Magnum, Viper etc which are less common and perhaps command a lower premium.

For 30k you'll be expecting either a Small Block Chevy (350 CI to 383 CI) or a Small Block Ford (302 CI to 351 CI) or a Bid Block Ford 427 CI.

If its got a rover V8, or Jag v12 its well over priced.

You'd also want a pretty well specced SBC, SBF or BBF for that money. (You can get a turnkey SBC with 400hp with the full dress up kit & Alloy heads etc for 4200)

gareth08
12-06-05, 07:18 PM
Hi
Find out what kit it is and engine/gearbox , diff running gear etc.If it's a 427 then its most probably a Ford lump.For the bigger engine kits the Jag running gear is usually the more popular option.Look at the general build so far and you should get a pretty good idea.
as for registration on an 05 plate you will need to prove amongst others that all parts are new (i belive you are entitled to use one re-con part) with reciepts etc to prove this and you will also need to do an SVA test.
Depending on the kit and when it was started this may prove the biggest problem (assuming all else is ok) as some cars are not SVA friendly so may require a fair amount of time etc to bring it up to current SVA spec.
Until you have actually seen the car and know what it is it's a bit difficult to offer any other help etc.

Regards
Gareth

tarmacscratcher
12-06-05, 07:50 PM
The best advice is to take someone with you who knows about cobras and yank engines........if that's what it's got in it. Where do you live? or where is the car? I'm sure someone on here will be more than willing to help. :)

mini16v
12-06-05, 09:30 PM
Apparently its the original 427 engine, completely rebuilt etc with the reciepts. I'm going to look tommorow, once I know aht type of kit it is, I can start working out a price from that.

Rich

PS, thanks again, I will let you all know how I get on tommorow night

smash
12-06-05, 09:42 PM
Hey Rich,

First, find out what kit it is and let us know to start a huge bun fight on the merits or otherwise of that particular type.
Second, find out how much is new and how much is recond then let us know plus how much you're thinking of paying and expect encouragement/dissuading as necessary.
Third, remember the dreaded SVA...if the kit's been kicking around for a while chances are it may well not have been built with SVA in mind - this may or may not mean a fair bit of backward engineering to comply.

Finally, when you've finished building it don't forget to go and taunt Andy at MLM cos it's his dream car! ;)

mini16v
12-06-05, 09:49 PM
If you know, that I know andy at ML, theres no doubt you know who I am! anyway, I shall find out more about it tommorow, As fot the car:

Its all painted, body on chassis, engine in, loom in, most electrical parts are in, it needs a trim, a dash, and some other minor finishing, mainly fitment of rad, brake and fuel line etc. Its big spec, wheels are new, tyres, enourmous brakes , enormous coilover suspension etc. From the pics I have seen of it on a camera phone, it LOOKS, (note looks lol) like the de dion setup on the suspension....

Hope so....

Rich

Pictus
13-06-05, 02:42 AM
id be interested in seeing this car if it is a proper 427 lump as im trying to fit an fe engine into my car and want to see what the engine mounts are like

Warren

mikey
13-06-05, 07:24 AM
For that price I would ask for comprehensive receipts etc. Is it a Dax? Why noy ask.

Im sorry but if it is virtually complete it seems very suspicious to me to be selling without completing as you get a big penalty in value for that.

If it were me taking into account risk etc I would be offering no more than 19 or 20K for an uncomplete car unless I knew the builder or somebody in the club could vouch for them. Make sure there is a good reason for the sale - babies etc.

Lastly compare the spec of the car to a Dave Brooks new one. You can have a complete one for that price - not necessarily with the 427 side oiler, but unless you are looking for authenticity there are better power plants to be had in both the Ford and the Chevy range.

Dont let your head rule your heart, Cobras can easily make this happen and best of luck on your deal

Let us know how you get on.
Mike

dave
13-06-05, 07:48 AM
Hi Rich.
The easiesy way to check if it's a Dax De Dion or even a std. DAx is to get the chassis no.
Dax De Dion chassi nos. all start:-
SA9DAXTD1?A038???
Std chassis are:-
SA9DAXM?R?A038???

mini16v
13-06-05, 10:11 PM
sorry to mislead you but I am not paying anywhere near 19 of 20k for it, its 5 figures but ONLY just. The guy who own it is a multi millionaire and money means pretty much nothing to him. Went to see it tonight, its glorious, but could only see it through the door, as the guy forgot the correct key and the only other bits of it I have seen are ona camera phone. We are having a full viewing tommorow morning, and Hope to go on from there.

I'm sure there will be more questions to come.

Thanks again, all info noted.

Rich

Pictus
13-06-05, 11:42 PM
did you find out whos makes this car??
and what engine is in it


Warren

buddybrittle
14-06-05, 07:19 AM
Careful Buddy, he might not have a key, could be, he's gonna steal it to order - for you ......

Del

mikey
14-06-05, 07:27 AM
If its cost over 30K and he wants just over 10K for it sounds a bargain, however if he is that wealthy and been building it himself and left the key I would be stripping it and re building.

I also think the last post could be appropriate - beware and be careful
Mike

mini16v
14-06-05, 12:47 PM
Right I have been to see it this morning.

everything on it is new, wheels, tyres, brakes, lines etc, engine has been run up once. Its the proper 427 motor brand new holley on it etc, brand new brakes, front and back. However, the chassis has been modified to take the bigger engine and the back end has been modified to take a Jag axle etc. It also has the correct wheels etc, 275 section rear tyres etc. The paintwork is perfect, its all carpetted, however and this is one BIG however!

It will need an SVA test, and The guy is still unsure what make and model the kit is although I will know by thursday. Does it sound worth it? Let me know!

Cheers

Rich

plod
14-06-05, 01:15 PM
Hi Rich. All very easy to be getting excited... He doesn't know what kit it is? Did you get pics at all to see if someone here can identify it? Chassis numbers etc??

Very odd that he has spent this money on it, worked on it, and not sure what make it is..

You know what your car is, I know mine etc.. Can anyone around this site go with the poor chap to help him sort things out?

How did you receive wind of it?

smash
14-06-05, 01:54 PM
Modified to take a jag axle? So it wasn't Jag to start with.....well that narrows the field considerably - gotta be a good chance it's a Sumo I'd think. With the best will in the world and not wanting to start any Tanner/Filby punch ups, a 427 bid block in a Sumo sounds a little scary! Rich, can you post any of your phone pix?

JonnyT
14-06-05, 02:05 PM
Just my twopenneth. I'm with Plod on this one. If he is that rich and he has spent that much money on it why not splash the cash a little more and finish off your dream car (thus disposing of suggestions of babies etc) - as from what you say he seems to have a keen eye for detail.

I am perhaps too cynical but I have a very strong scent of billingsgate in my nostrils on this one - it doesn't add up - especially when you say that despite the keen eye for detail he doesn't know the manufacturer.

Clarkson
14-06-05, 06:17 PM
Sorry, but i think this one smells fishy!:mad: Why did you not get any pics???

gareth08
14-06-05, 10:09 PM
hi
I'd have to agree that something doesn't sound right.A 30 grand car for 10 grand that needs say 2 grand to finish it off. If it is a modified Sumo (they do do a jag version anyway) with a big block in then I'd steer well clear.
You'd definatly be wise to get some pics and post here so someone can help you identify it etc.
gareth

mini16v
14-06-05, 10:17 PM
I was only talking to the guy who was asked to finsih it off, its at his workshop. I have not met the actual owner yet. He has all the bills to prove authenticity and the guy I met today will be getting all the details for me by thursday to let me know what sort of kit it is etc. EVerything is to a high standard on the car though, Ally fuel cell, proper motorsport brake lines, oil cooler lines, fuel lines etc, original "look" cobra wheels with the black centres, lights, detail etc is very good. Lets for arguments sake say it was a sumo.. what is it worth finished and with an SVA on a Q plate?

Rich

PS the engine is DEFINATELY a 427 motor, and I have seen all the bills for it. the headers etc, are enormous, it has different cams, different heads, forged pistins, ARP bolts etc etc.

Pictus
14-06-05, 11:15 PM
do you hava any pics of the car and who makes the kit

mikey
15-06-05, 07:33 AM
If its got a 427 side oiler (are you sure you know how to identify one) that alone is wiorth probably near 10 K if its built up. Without photos we really cant help you anymore. Ask if you can take some and post them.

Motorsport lines???? SVA requires lines that are stamped/marked appropriate. If he means braided or reinforced then thats a different thing.

You may have a real gem or you may have a real dog. The other thing that really worries me is a modified unknown chassis with the BB.

If you can afford to blow 10K I'd go for it otherwise I would take more time to search and take a member down with you.

Or get some photos and numbers.
Mike

mini16v
15-06-05, 10:37 PM
I am going to find out Exactly what the kit is tommorow and let you all know.

I will also go and take some photos of it as well.

Rich

Pictus
15-06-05, 10:39 PM
good good do you know what a 427 looks like??

mini16v
15-06-05, 11:02 PM
No, But I took someone with me who did and they assured me it was one.

wether its a side oiler or not do not know.

Rich

Pictus
15-06-05, 11:06 PM
thats ok then would you be willing to take some pictures of the engine mounts as im tryiung to fit an FE an engine of the same family to my dax i would like to know what they look like

cheers Warren

mini16v
17-06-05, 10:39 PM
thanks fro all the advice, I have now decided against it. Its to much work, for to little money and to much hassle as its been modified to much. The kit turned out to be a sumo, be heftily modified to accept parts it shouldn't have, and not nicely.

If anyone else is interested (would be nice to do and keep for yourself properly) I could put you in contact witht he guy who's got it.

Rich

Goldie
17-06-05, 11:41 PM
oh dear....
not good...
too many kits turn out that way... Hope yer find one in the future...

Chimeara
18-06-05, 08:14 AM
thanks fro all the advice, I have now decided against it. Its to much work, for to little money and to much hassle as its been modified to much. The kit turned out to be a sumo, be heftily modified to accept parts it shouldn't have, and not nicely.

If anyone else is interested (would be nice to do and keep for yourself properly) I could put you in contact witht he guy who's got it.

Rich

Ive just read and caught up on all these posts, firstly Im stunned that someone would modify a Pilgrim based chassis spending 30K to fit a big block etc and jag rear end when they sell a comprehensive kit to do just this for approx 25K complete.

I have just SVA'd one with a SBC and fair enough it had its build fualts but I overcome these alot easier than trying to modify a whole chassis and its now a very quick well built car. Without bragging the SVA man said himself we see a lot of these that are thrown together and its nice to see a good quality, well finished and safe build.

On a ligter note I think you have saved yourself alot of hassle, if your interested in this set up though give Pilgrim a call, put all of the pilgrim comments aside as people will base there opinions on the flexible ford based set up, I myself have about the 8th jag based sumo and I can vouch it is nothing like the ford one. Its more rigid, puts the power down better and handles remarkably well.

On that note it might be worth knowing the bloke trying to sell this as for 10K the engine wheels etc alone would be great for my next build

Anthony

Pictus
18-06-05, 02:50 PM
still a big block in a sumo?????? fitting a chevy is bad enough
shelby modified the cobra to take a 427 with 4 inch tubing what has been done to the sumo so it can take a 427

rich did you get any pics in the end of the car?? would still be interested in seeing them

Warren