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tonym
16-11-05, 08:27 PM
Read it and weep

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=222270


:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Miket
16-11-05, 08:37 PM
Read it and weep

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=222270


:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

I think its now time for revolving number plates. :angry::-( :rolleyes:

Purple AK
16-11-05, 08:44 PM
And Who's Paying for all this? Tony, Meredydd Hughes? NO Joe Public :angry:

Clarkson
16-11-05, 08:55 PM
This bloody goverment is making me mad!!! We really need to stand up for ourselfs because we are getting mugged off with there bloody polices and tax's!!!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

This is for you Tony:finger: :finger:

tonym
16-11-05, 08:59 PM
This is for you Tony:finger: :finger:

Er, cheers :D:D:D:angel:

wilf
16-11-05, 09:37 PM
Is it simply enough to register anger here?

No, of course it is not.

At the very least, join the Association of British Drivers - so far as I can see, the only organisation in this country with our interests at heart. At the least, you will receive a monthly newsletter that raises your blood pressure! Better than that, this organisation is fast becoming adept at lobbying - and that is the key to change for the better.

www.abd.org


Better still - join the ABD and also write to your MP expressing disgust and concern about this latest "big brother" initiative. If you voted for the current Gov't (and that was your democratic right) - ask them exactly where this was in their prospectus? And if you didn't - give the opposition some ammunition.
Don't fall for the "speed kills" reply - demand proof of that particular set of misleading statistics (there is none, btw, speed is the 5th or 6th biggest recorded cause of accidents, a long way down from sheer poor driving, bad road layouts, and poorly maintained vehicles).

Simply fulminating here will do no d*mm good at all - we have to do more, or we WILL end up falling asleep at the wheels of our cars on the M1/M6/M4 or wherever due to sheer boredom; trundling along at 70mph because big brother is watching and itching to get their ph*kin fingers into our wallets even more than they can now. And that way lies severe casualty figures. Overnight they could turn the safest roads in the country into death traps.

I hate these people. Let's stop them.

john cohen
16-11-05, 09:40 PM
:-( :finger: :angry: :angry: What chance do we stand?. Rip us off with fuel. Now big brother is watching. The B######S.:angry: :angry: :angry: :finger:

Dutch Paul
16-11-05, 09:41 PM
Is it simply enough to register anger here?

No, of course it is not.

At the very least, join the Association of British Drivers - so far as I can see, the only organisation in this country with our interests at heart. At the least, you will receive a monthly newsletter that raises your blood pressure! Better than that, this organisation is fast becoming adept at lobbying - and that is the key to change for the better.

www.abd.org


Better still - join the ABD and also write to your MP expressing disgust and concern about this latest "big brother" initiative. If you voted for the current Gov't (and that was your democratic right) - ask them exactly where this was in their prospectus? And if you didn't - give the opposition some ammunition.
Don't fall for the "speed kills" reply - demand proof of that particular set of misleading statistics (there is none, btw, speed is the 5th or 6th biggest recorded cause of accidents, a long way down from sheer poor driving, bad road layouts, and poorly maintained vehicles).

Simply fulminating here will do no d*mm good at all - we have to do more, or we WILL end up falling asleep at the wheels of our cars on the M1/M6/M4 or wherever due to sheer boredom; trundling along at 70mph because big brother is watching and itching to get their ph*kin fingers into our wallets even more than they can now. And that way lies severe casualty figures. Overnight they could turn the safest roads in the country into death traps.

I hate these people. Let's stop them.


Ermm....

http://www.abd.org.uk/

Miket
16-11-05, 09:45 PM
Is it simply enough to register anger here?

No, of course it is not.

At the very least, join the Association of British Drivers - so far as I can see, the only organisation in this country with our interests at heart. At the least, you will receive a monthly newsletter that raises your blood pressure! Better than that, this organisation is fast becoming adept at lobbying - and that is the key to change for the better.

www.abd.org (http://www.abd.org)


Better still - join the ABD and also write to your MP expressing disgust and concern about this latest "big brother" initiative. If you voted for the current Gov't (and that was your democratic right) - ask them exactly where this was in their prospectus? And if you didn't - give the opposition some ammunition.
Don't fall for the "speed kills" reply - demand proof of that particular set of misleading statistics (there is none, btw, speed is the 5th or 6th biggest recorded cause of accidents, a long way down from sheer poor driving, bad road layouts, and poorly maintained vehicles).

Simply fulminating here will do no d*mm good at all - we have to do more, or we WILL end up falling asleep at the wheels of our cars on the M1/M6/M4 or wherever due to sheer boredom; trundling along at 70mph because big brother is watching and itching to get their ph*kin fingers into our wallets even more than they can now. And that way lies severe casualty figures. Overnight they could turn the safest roads in the country into death traps.

I hate these people. Let's stop them.
Well said Wilf, I think this link might be better. :thumb: :thumb:

http://www.abd.org.uk/

I'll get mi coat then, ;)

wilf
16-11-05, 09:50 PM
Mike - you are right. My link was incorrect. Senior moment, I guess.

www.abd.org.uk - join NOW

Miket
16-11-05, 09:53 PM
Mike - you are right. My link was incorrect. Senior moment, I guess.

www.abd.org.uk (http://www.abd.org.uk) - join NOW
If your having senior moments, god help me. :o :o :thumb:

robert
17-11-05, 01:39 AM
For those of you having a "senior moment", us junior members have decided to make it easier for you "senior members" to find the ABD, there is now a logo on the left menu which links directly to the ABD.

I really hope this helps the more aged and challenged amongst us. Oh, and don't forget that we might also be like our "senior members" one day, although if I get like some of them, please just shoot me.... :D :D

Robin427
17-11-05, 10:42 AM
On a positive note, the Government is going to offer free Yoga lessons to all...

... should make touching your toes a lot easier!! :D

dingocooke
17-11-05, 01:46 PM
Ladies and Gents.
I emailed the link to my local MP, Nick Palmer, and asked simply, 'is it true?',
Here's his reply (I have asked him permission to post his reply and he agreed).

'Hi Steve-
No, a good example of a small true story hyped into a big false story. The true story is that there are trials of cameras designed to spot missing insurance discs. Meredydd Hughes is ACPO's spokesman on traffic safety, and has various controversial views - e.g. he thinks all speed cameras should be mobile and hidden. I'd not heard that he'd like them every 400 yards, but it's quite possible that this is his opinion. The idea sounds completely unaffordable and political suicide to me.
What the article does is link the true bit (some cameras will check for insurance) with his views, and describe them as 'plans'. There are no such plans.
Cheers, Nick'

Nice of him to reply, and my experience of Nick Palmer MP from emailing him on other subjects has been that he has always been honest, even if it was not what I wanted to hear, and no, I'm not in the labour party! (Or any other come to mention it!)

Regards
Steve

Neil O
17-11-05, 03:10 PM
Put tyres over them and burn 'em!

If that doesn't work......try the cameras..........:(

Cheers,
Neil :D

wazovolan
17-11-05, 03:22 PM
Do you know that in France we have automatic radars that automatically record your licence plate number and that 2 days after you did an overspeed ( 5 miles more than the authorized speed), you receive automatically the price of the fine you have to pay?
Try to fight against that. Good luck.

Is it simply enough to register anger here?

No, of course it is not.

At the very least, join the Association of British Drivers - so far as I can see, the only organisation in this country with our interests at heart. At the least, you will receive a monthly newsletter that raises your blood pressure! Better than that, this organisation is fast becoming adept at lobbying - and that is the key to change for the better.

www.abd.org (http://www.abd.org)


Better still - join the ABD and also write to your MP expressing disgust and concern about this latest "big brother" initiative. If you voted for the current Gov't (and that was your democratic right) - ask them exactly where this was in their prospectus? And if you didn't - give the opposition some ammunition.
Don't fall for the "speed kills" reply - demand proof of that particular set of misleading statistics (there is none, btw, speed is the 5th or 6th biggest recorded cause of accidents, a long way down from sheer poor driving, bad road layouts, and poorly maintained vehicles).

Simply fulminating here will do no d*mm good at all - we have to do more, or we WILL end up falling asleep at the wheels of our cars on the M1/M6/M4 or wherever due to sheer boredom; trundling along at 70mph because big brother is watching and itching to get their ph*kin fingers into our wallets even more than they can now. And that way lies severe casualty figures. Overnight they could turn the safest roads in the country into death traps.

I hate these people. Let's stop them.

plod
17-11-05, 03:52 PM
Yep, What's wrong with it..? :D

tonym
17-11-05, 04:04 PM
Yep, What's wrong with it..? :D

You wont be so smug when (sorry, IF) you ever get your daytona on the road :finger:

wilf
17-11-05, 07:36 PM
Yep, What's wrong with it..? :D

Nothing wrong with it at all, so long as you consider a country with zero people with licences left due to "totting up" to be "right". Apart from a tiny, tiny minority, there are no drivers who NEVER exceed speed limits.

And are we to expect the current situation where force cars get away with sparking off speed cameras with no proof of being on an emergency call to continue? And before you answer, be aware that two of my neighbours (and good friends) are police inspectors and area commanders, so I do have some insight into what really goes on. It seems to no longer be "one rule for the rich...", but "one rule for the uniformed....".

This automated war on the wallets of drivers is forcing such a large wedge between the ordinary public and the police force that it is, in itself, criminal. I personally think it is a huge problem and a massive shame.

Bring back traffic cars!

plod
17-11-05, 08:21 PM
Hi Wilf. do you know, this is the 1st time you've replied to a post of mine and as everyone speaks so highly of you, I feel kind of honoured. Cheesy I know, but hey, that's how I feel..

Anyway, on to the meaty stuff. The fact that these will be considered as the new gatso is only a supposition. Yes its a strong one but nly linked to the fact that the G'ment are trying to clamp down on speed.

As far as us speeding, again, down here, all cameras tripped by a police car are sent to a Superintendent who can review what that car was doing at the time by checking its index, and thus its call sign and what it was attached to. They can read what that car has been doing for generally every 15 minutes over an entire year that car has been on patrol. We do get stopped by our own and as much as its a pain in the ****, its what happens and I think if we are speeding unnecessarily, then we should be accountable.

They are suggesting every 400 yds. Exactly how much is that going to cost? An even if implemented, would it not make a difference to those rush hour journeys where the imposed speed limit is 40 and still people go past you at 80. If folk drove at the imposed speed, then surely we would only experience slower moving traffic but at least moving traffic, against stop go stop go for an hour and then wondering what on earth the obstacle was.

Last week 5 people were killed in a stolen car, all around 17 years old and they weren't even being chased by a Police car.

Yesterday, an old man was knocked over and was found in a bush. The driver failed to stop.

I f people weren't the idiots they were, things might not have some to this but I suppose it was always inevitable.

I suggest if you're road legal, then generally you'll be ok. An now for the Gerald Ratner statement. I dont personally care if you drive 35/6/7 mph in a 30, nor drive at 85 or 90 on a motorway as long as there isn't a Police car behind you. I might stop you and say 'dont take the pi55' but thats it and in fact you will probably give me a totally legitimate reason for pressing on a little .

I would like to think this proposed system is similar, targetting only those that are blatantly disregarding the law and ethics in every way.

A really good friend of mine was stopped for doing nearly 100 on a motorway and was given a right bollocking by the traffic chap. However, what stuck in his mind was that Mr Traffic said 'Is your family and everything you have worth so little to you that would drive at break neck speeds and risk not seeing them again'

blimey, my beer has started to get warm...

hawk289
17-11-05, 09:45 PM
Why do the government never produce stats on the following (for example)

1) How many people die due to speed ramps while in ambulance going to hospital?
2) How many deaths on the road does speeding police cars cause?
3) How many drunks are killed by cars when falling off the kerb

Get where Iím going, well it is money gathering. But I do not believe the technology is in place and the best bit most national projects fail, so we our looking at between 10-20 years before award of contact, etc. Anyway I agree if you do a few miles driving a year you will get points, which is not fair!!

My local council have just removed £160,000 worth of road safety systems as the number of accidents went up not down the cost to remove was £160,000 (Great!!!!!). The road in question never had a fatal accident until the road safety system was put in.

John.

wilf
17-11-05, 10:00 PM
Paul - No need to feel honoured, I can assure you. Many feel precisely the opposite!

You are right - people can behave like complete idiots on occasion. All I believe is that over-reliance on a "speed kills" message (which is statistically incorrect anyway) and "safety" cameras (often the opposite) is downright wrong and has directly lead to the loss of more lives, because the REAL major causes of KSI accidents are not being tackled. And yes, I agree that there IS such a thing as inappropriate speed. I don't happen to believe it has 100% correlation with posted speed limits.

I am pretty sure that many within the force agree with much of the foregoing, but cannot express their feelings. And please don't feel you have to do so either on this public forum - you have a job to hold down.

I actually want to see more traffic cars around, mind you I have a problem with the unmarked ones - they really don't contribute anything towards road safety, they just generate fine revenue. Jam sandwiches please, and plenty of 'em. Stopping more vehicles with dodgy lights, bald tyres, missing exhausts, etc. It is pretty much a given that the more decrepit a vehicle is the more likely it is to be "illegal" in some fashion and I have no time at all for the b*st*rds who drive without insurance etc.

The police already have direct links to the DVLA computer from within a police car - you can tell almost immediately if the car you are following is taxed/mot'd etc., so why any need for yet more big brother surveillance? Why is this madman (and I use the word advisedly) Merydydd allowed to spout such utter rubbish from a position that supposedly guarantees credibility with a credible public, yet actually reduces the credibility of the police force in the eyes of anyone with a brain cell to actually think about it? What is it with the Welsh police top brass and their hatred of car drivers? Don't they have any junkies/burglaries/muggings/murders to worry about? Is there actually any real evidence that Welsh roads are safer for all of their rantings?

Most of all - as someone said before me - what exactly are we being softened up for now?

Like I said - I hate these people. I really must stop reading the Sunday papers, they upset me far too much.

I look forward to seeing your new car. I take it it shall be blue with white stripes?

Miket
17-11-05, 11:10 PM
This hits the nail on the head.


Safe Speed presents (http://www.safespeed.org.uk/blackpool2003.ppt)

mikey
18-11-05, 07:37 AM
[quote:d9b925fea4="PLOD"]Hi Wilf. do you know, this is the 1st time you've replied to a post of mine and as everyone speaks so highly of you, I feel kind of honoured. Cheesy I know, but hey, that's how I feel..

You think your lucky - Dave's got a signed pair of his underpants on his garage wall. However the club shop has run out of stock at the moment so you wil have to wait.

On the point - I think it will be some time before they can carry out such a blatent regime. It would be interesting to find out if those units can determine speed and dont they have to undergo callibration tests. Hell of a lot to callibrate.

Way out of it may be to find out which camera snapped you, smash it up and ask for a callibration test
Mike

kayjayd
18-11-05, 08:43 AM
My two-pennoth.

I'm aware of projects happening at the moment where intelligent CCTV systems will track every vehicle entering the country from the continent in order to force hauliers etc. to pay some form of road tax. A number of UK hauliers have moved operations to the French coast in order to avoid high UK taxes on their vehicles. This system is also envisaged to spread to "Every major UK road intersection". The "every intersection" element would indicate this certainly isn't designed to catch people speeding but to track unlicensed vehicles.

A system that's tracking vehicles every 400 yards can only be ultimately designed to trap speeding motorists.

Judging on the amount of similar projects currently already running or planned to happen very shortly within the UK there's no escaping big brother. Nearly every major police force in the UK is going this way. After the recent events in London there's no way any amount of lobbying will stop this, it's here to stay. Don't really agree with it but there's no stopping it.

john w
18-11-05, 09:04 AM
The reason the goerment do this too us, is because we are weak, i.e. the Britsh population, we are far to passive, writing to MPs & walking in a march with a board has never done us any favours, writing to MPs is a waste of paper & stamp.

wilf
18-11-05, 09:18 AM
Do people here realise that every vehicle entering every major city in the UK is already scanned and ANPR'd?

Big Brother is already doing pretty well so far as I can see.

plod
18-11-05, 09:55 AM
Paul -

I look forward to seeing your new car. I take it it shall be blue with white stripes?

It shall be blue, probably not the right blue and I think it hints of purple and turquoise on the flanks, with 2 white stripes. Not sure whether to break the stripes or continue them over the hump on the bonnet. It will have side pipes, 4 of them in fact and will have some extraordinary ford lump in it with th proper ci'

I quite like the unmarked ones. We have one of the rallye types as an unmarked at the mo and they love it though 8 hours in one tends to cause irritation I think.

Wilf, I think generally I agree with your comments but Perhaps due to my position or ethos or tolerance, Im on a slightly different plain.

As for other stats, sorry cant remember who posted, but anything is available if you look

apearce
18-11-05, 10:40 AM
We're all petrol heads on here and I'd love to be able to go as fast as I want - after all, I'm a brilliant driver (!) so I'd never crash. But alas, not everyone is as good as us and we can't have separate laws for good Cobra drivers, so I have to accept that speed cameras, cops etc may well save me, my wife and my baby from some other idiot one day. A lot of people feel this way but we tend to keep quiet (and it doesnt make a good newpaper story!)

As for the money motive, its a comforting conspiracy theory, but just not true: Last year, the Treasury collected £113M in speeding fines and spent £92M running the camera scheme, so a profit of £21M, accompanied by huge negative publicity (like this thread!). £21M is peanuts in govt terms and certainly not worth all the votes it may cost them - one pound on a tax disc would raise more than that and who would notice?

Please dont get too caught up in the accident causation statistics - you can prove whatever you want with those - I'm telling you from years of accident investigation work that most horrific crashes are either caused by speeding or made more severe by it. I hope you never have to see the things ive seen to make you believe this.

Andy

p.s. I'd hate to see a camera every 400yds too, but like the MP said, its not gonna happen (usual media bull!)