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Clarkson
24-04-06, 09:34 PM
Hi, My clutch is over thowing and on quick gear changes my pedal sticks down!! I have a 7/8 clutch master and a mc cloud bearing with a -3 clutch pipe.

The clutch feels great,but I only need half the pedal travel so thinking of fitting a pedal stop?? Any ideas chaps??:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

wilf
24-04-06, 09:37 PM
Is this a concentric hydraulic throwout bearing? If so, overstroking it will result in disaster - fit a pedal stop now, and maybe come down to a 3/4" master as well.

If not, do the above anyway - what bore is the slave? Most people have the opposite problem!

Robin427
24-04-06, 09:37 PM
Be interested to hear - I need a clutch stop too, since my gear changes are fine with only half pedal travel too...

Clarkson
24-04-06, 09:44 PM
Is this a concentric hydraulic throwout bearing? If so, overstroking it will result in disaster - fit a pedal stop now, and maybe come down to a 3/4" master as well.

If not, do the above anyway - what bore is the slave? Most people have the opposite problem!

Yes I think it is! I ordered a -4 pipe today may also think is will help? I thought if you come down on size then it gives you more travel??

Any ideas on a pedal stop??

wilf
24-04-06, 10:00 PM
Pipe size will make no difference whatsoever to the stroke. Might help the speed of return tho' - less resistance to flow of the fluid. But if your pedal is staying on the floor, the pipe size won't help that either.

Pedal stops are usually fashioned from a reasonably sized bolt - use nuts either side of the bulkhead/floor to hold it where you need it.

If your clutch is a diaphragm type, it won't like being overstroked, quite apart from the HTOB popping out of its housing, so I should cure this asap, were I you.

Smaller master = less slave travel.

Smaller slave = more slave travel.

And vice versa.

Repeat until you fall asleep, there will be a test later. LOL

Clarkson
24-04-06, 10:06 PM
Thanks wilf, Gonna sort it sat,just need some ideas for a pedal stop??

wilf
24-04-06, 10:18 PM
How many ideas would you like?

Clarkson
24-04-06, 10:22 PM
How many ideas would you like?

Just trying to think of a nice clean idea??:confused:

wilf
24-04-06, 10:26 PM
Sorry - thought I did that already in post #5:

"Pedal stops are usually fashioned from a reasonably sized bolt - use nuts either side of the bulkhead/floor to hold it where you need it."

Otherwise anything that blocks the pedal movement will do, so long as it can't get loose and get under the brake pedal.

slogger
24-04-06, 11:12 PM
Hi, My clutch is over thowing and on quick gear changes my pedal sticks down!! I have a 7/8 clutch master and a mc cloud bearing with a -3 clutch pipe.

The clutch feels great,but I only need half the pedal travel so thinking of fitting a pedal stop?? Any ideas chaps??:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Dave

The Mc leod clutch release info sheet says use a 3/4 master with no more than 1 1/4 travel. Any more than this WILL blow the seals if the clutch allows the over travel. I am assuming you have the hydraulic release bearing type that is mounted on the nose of your gear box. (Input shaft sleeve)

Would post a copy for what its worth, but again, I can't get to were the bits of my Cob are stored.

dingocooke
25-04-06, 09:47 AM
I have a Mcleod (Mc Leak?) in my car, just about to reseal it.
You really need a pedal stop, if you have overstroked the bearing, you'll know, there'll be hydraulic fluid dripping out of the bell housing where it joins the block backplate.
The biggest cause of these bearings leaking is overstroking, followed by using the wrong fluid, followed by having the wrong bearing contact shape for your clutch pressure plate.
Use Castrol response fluid DOT 4 (not super response)
Reason for using for DOT 3 or 4 is the extra lubricity required by the long stroke of the release bearing, plus DOT 4.1 and above are for very high temps, and they will destroy the seals in the release bearing (especially DOT 5).
Need to check what the clutch spring tips are like, if they have a slight curve to the tips, you need a flat faced bearing, or a curved faced bearing if the tips are flat.
The curve is very slight and might just resemble a slight chamfer.
I can take a pic of my pedal stop if it helps.

Steve

Clarkson
25-04-06, 04:49 PM
Dave

The Mc leod clutch release info sheet says use a 3/4 master with no more than 1 1/4 travel. Any more than this WILL blow the seals if the clutch allows the over travel. I am assuming you have the hydraulic release bearing type that is mounted on the nose of your gear box. (Input shaft sleeve)

Would post a copy for what its worth, but again, I can't get to were the bits of my Cob are stored.

Cheers, I will buy a 3/4 master cylinder and try that and fitting a clutch stop too.

Clarkson
25-04-06, 04:50 PM
I have a Mcleod (Mc Leak?) in my car, just about to reseal it.
You really need a pedal stop, if you have overstroked the bearing, you'll know, there'll be hydraulic fluid dripping out of the bell housing where it joins the block backplate.
The biggest cause of these bearings leaking is overstroking, followed by using the wrong fluid, followed by having the wrong bearing contact shape for your clutch pressure plate.
Use Castrol response fluid DOT 4 (not super response)
Reason for using for DOT 3 or 4 is the extra lubricity required by the long stroke of the release bearing, plus DOT 4.1 and above are for very high temps, and they will destroy the seals in the release bearing (especially DOT 5).
Need to check what the clutch spring tips are like, if they have a slight curve to the tips, you need a flat faced bearing, or a curved faced bearing if the tips are flat.
The curve is very slight and might just resemble a slight chamfer.
I can take a pic of my pedal stop if it helps.

Steve

Can you please send me a pic, would like to have some ideas.

dingocooke
25-04-06, 05:02 PM
Will get a pic, basically its an adjustable bolt, with a BSA Bantam gearchange lever rubber slid over it (no im not kidding its a very reslient rubber moulding for less than a quid)
Got my reseal kit today, just mulling over if I should reseal and have another go with the McLeak, or just build a proper slave/arm ball set up.
The sun outside is whats making me tempted to just reseal!!!

Clarkson
25-04-06, 05:10 PM
Will get a pic, basically its an adjustable bolt, with a BSA Bantam gearchange lever rubber slid over it (no im not kidding its a very reslient rubber moulding for less than a quid)
Got my reseal kit today, just mulling over if I should reseal and have another go with the McLeak, or just build a proper slave/arm ball set up.
The sun outside is whats making me tempted to just reseal!!!

Thanks!

Can't fit a clutch fork etc,no room sor it!:mad:

Clarkson
25-04-06, 05:31 PM
where is the best place you can buy a 3/4 master??

Purple AK
25-04-06, 05:37 PM
Europa or Merlin Motorsport ;)

Clarkson
25-04-06, 06:36 PM
Thanks Chris only 42.:mad:

How much differance would a 0.7 and a 0.75 make??:confused: :confused:

Purple AK
25-04-06, 06:56 PM
Try Car Builder Solutions then ;) http://www.nfauto.co.uk/download/cataloguejuly2005.pdf Didn't realise the other two had sneaked the price up so much :rolleyes:

Clarkson
25-04-06, 07:02 PM
Try Car Builder Solutions then ;) http://www.nfauto.co.uk/download/cataloguejuly2005.pdf Didn't realise the other two had sneaked the price up so much :rolleyes:

Bloody hell thats a 10 cheaper!:D

rich
25-04-06, 07:37 PM
Bloody hell thats a 10 cheaper!:D

I got mine from them, along with a clevis but both had different threads so i had to prat about to get it all to fit. That was when they first started to sell MC's so they might have got it sorted by now, but worth checking when you order ;)

slogger
09-05-06, 05:52 PM
Just trying to think of a nice clean idea??:confused:

Here you go Mr. C

The McLeod info sheet!! Be Happy!

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5671.jpg

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5672.jpg

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5673.jpg

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5675.jpg

Clarkson
09-05-06, 07:03 PM
Here you go Mr. C

The McLeod info sheet!! Be Happy!

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5671.jpg

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5672.jpg

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5673.jpg

http://autos.ninebean.com/cobraclub/crc_images/5675.jpg

Thanks Slogger top man! :) :) :)

dingocooke
09-05-06, 07:24 PM
Just about finished my conversion to Wilwood pull slave, so the McLeak will be on Ebay soon, 50p start price (i.e about double what its worth IMHO).
By the way my master was 5/8", and still a very heavy pedal (my pal thought he was pressing the brake pedal!!), so God knows how heavy a 3/4 master set up will be, although I have a McLoud Kevlar clutch and their pressure plate which is quite a high release force cover plate.
Steve

Clarkson
09-05-06, 07:37 PM
Just about finished my conversion to Wilwood pull slave, so the McLeak will be on Ebay soon, 50p start price (i.e about double what its worth IMHO).
By the way my master was 5/8", and still a very heavy pedal (my pal thought he was pressing the brake pedal!!), so God knows how heavy a 3/4 master set up will be, although I have a McLoud Kevlar clutch and their pressure plate which is quite a high release force cover plate.
Steve

any pics of your set up?? Mind you, I have a T5.:mad:

dingocooke
09-05-06, 07:39 PM
soon as its done and working 100% ill post some pics, can't make the garage this week, so maybe a couple of weeks away at worst.
Of course, this means the sun is guaranteed for that period....:D

Purple AK
09-05-06, 07:42 PM
any pics of your set up?? Mind you, I have a T5.:mad:
Dave.
I have a T5 with puller slave ;) Have a look on Sunday :D

Clarkson
09-05-06, 07:47 PM
soon as its done and working 100% ill post some pics, can't make the garage this week, so maybe a couple of weeks away at worst.
Of course, this means the sun is guaranteed for that period....:D

Also is it possible to take a pic of your leaky bearing and show me where the adjustment is??

Clarkson
09-05-06, 07:49 PM
Dave.
I have a T5 with puller slave ;) Have a look on Sunday :D

Thanks Chris! Is yours on the n/s of the gearbox??

Purple AK
09-05-06, 08:00 PM
Thanks Chris! Is yours on the n/s of the gearbox??
Yes Mate. As the original cable was

Clarkson
09-05-06, 08:03 PM
Yes Mate. As the original cable was

Ok I will have a look sun.

slogger
09-05-06, 08:04 PM
Just about finished my conversion to Wilwood pull slave, so the McLeak will be on Ebay soon, 50p start price (i.e about double what its worth IMHO).
By the way my master was 5/8", and still a very heavy pedal (my pal thought he was pressing the brake pedal!!), so God knows how heavy a 3/4 master set up will be, although I have a McLoud Kevlar clutch and their pressure plate which is quite a high release force cover plate.
Steve

Would you believe Kirkham use and defend the McLeod hydraulic release. Have found more for this unit than against on the net. Must admitt that I am not sure about using mine. 200 will make me give it a go!:confused:

Clarkson
09-05-06, 08:11 PM
I am a firm belever if it's set up properly it will work well.This part does not work well throwing it together and expecting it to work. Now that I have the manual, I now stand a chance setting it up correctly!

dingocooke
09-05-06, 08:19 PM
The McLeod in my car was fitted by a pro race engineer recomended by RPM, and it leaked catastrophically after 400 miles stranding the then new owner.He had it resealed and checked over by Roger Klimcke racing whoh said it was installed properly. It began leaking again 400 miles later (when I bought the car; maybe it doesnt like new owners??)
Ive stripped it check the installation, clearances everything all as per McLeods data, proper pedal stop, runs DOT4, I even say a little prayer in the direction of California each time before I press the pedal down, it still leaked; so now its out and never going back in again.
Most of the talk on the web is about them being fine for a seasons racing; hardly 'streetable' to use an american adjective.

Overpriced rubbish IMHO

Steve

wilf
09-05-06, 08:20 PM
The Mcleod HTB had two problems:

1: The orginal "banjo" type connections for the hydraulic lines were pants, and spit out the seals in about two seconds flat.

2: As has been said, they are very critical in their setup, any overstroking leads to disaster, and few people realise how much extra movement is involved as the clutch plate wears, and setup accordingly.
Very careful setup, including clutch pedal stops where needed, is necessary.

My view, which I have expressed before, is that here is another race-oriented component. It is light and eliminates external packaging considerations.

The problem is that race cars are usually stripped down every season, if not every race, therefore a HTB can be used,, and seals etc replaced frequently. Road cars tend not to be used quite like that.

If you have the space, fit an external slave. When they go wrong, life is much simpler. The car goes no faster because it has a HTB fitted.

slogger
09-05-06, 08:33 PM
I am a firm belever if it's set up properly it will work well.This part does not work well throwing it together and expecting it to work. Now that I have the manual, I now stand a chance setting it up correctly!

Hey Mr. C................You got this info a day early so get out and set the thing up.

Adjustment is by the mounting sleeve screwed inside the center of the bearing.:D

Clarkson
09-05-06, 09:05 PM
Hey Mr. C................You got this info a day early so get out and set the thing up.

Adjustment is by the mounting sleeve screwed inside the center of the bearing.:D

Well... I have got a show to go to on Sunday so will do it after that! Thanks for that!:)

You sure that 454 is big enough for you??:confused: :confused: :D

slogger
09-05-06, 09:11 PM
Well... I have got a show to go to on Sunday so will do it after that! Thanks for that!:)

You sure that 454 is big enough for you??:confused: :confused: :D

Na!!! Wanted a 14.5 ltr simplex from 1915 but it won't go in the garage. Even the new one.

454 small now Dax are running that 502! Give it time, was offered a 615 ex drag motor.....Hmmm. Think he said 615, but could be bigger.

Clarkson
09-05-06, 09:21 PM
Na!!! Wanted a 14.5 ltr simplex from 1915 but it won't go in the garage. Even the new one.

454 small now Dax are running that 502! Give it time, was offered a 615 ex drag motor.....Hmmm. Think he said 615, but could be bigger.

I hope it's not a stock 454?? Really fancy a 454 small block.:D

slogger
09-05-06, 09:32 PM
I hope it's not a stock 454?? Really fancy a 454 small block.:D

Not stock, but not a big hp motor. Tuned for around 350bhp but the torque will pull your arms out of their sockets.

!973 Corvette 454 block with ported 1978 open chamber truck heads on very low intake. Std valves with high lift cam, double springs with dampers and mushroom stem seals. The idea is to get the car back on road and if motor doesn't work for me my setup should take a pair of Dart heads with power up to 450-475 bhp.

Clarkson
09-05-06, 09:36 PM
Not stock, but not a big hp motor. Tuned for around 350bhp but the torque will pull your arms out of their sockets.

!973 Corvette 454 block with ported 1978 open chamber truck heads on very low intake. Std valves with high lift cam, double springs with dampers and mushroom stem seals. The idea is to get the car back on road and if motor doesn't work for me my setup should take a pair of Dart heads with power up to 450-475 bhp.

Like the big block route!:) :)

dingocooke
10-05-06, 07:45 AM
I am a firm belever if it's set up properly it will work well.This part does not work well throwing it together and expecting it to work. Now that I have the manual, I now stand a chance setting it up correctly!

I would agree, with one caveat; well set up rubbish is still rubbish.
Mine is the first generation unit, the second generation is identical except for different banjos; mine has leaked both at banjos and the main seals...drill a hole in your bellhousing so you can watch for drips, and always check the clutch master fluid level before each drive.

Its been set up/checked scrupulously by three very particular people, using the McLeod data, and Ive rebuilt it once to almost medically clean standards.
Wilf probably has the right angle on it, its a competition part, not really practical for street use.

dingocooke
11-05-06, 01:38 PM
Heres the pic of Mr leaky as requested, now redundant-yehah!!

Steve

Clarkson
11-05-06, 05:59 PM
Heres the pic of Mr leaky as requested, now redundant-yehah!!

Steve

You have the later version of mine.

slogger
11-05-06, 06:11 PM
You have the later version of mine.

Mr C

Is yours a push on bearing or a bolt on unit like the one in the pic?

Clarkson
11-05-06, 07:10 PM
Mr C

Is yours a push on bearing or a bolt on unit like the one in the pic?

Mine is bolt on.... Why is the push on better??

slogger
11-05-06, 07:18 PM
Mine is bolt on.... Why is the push on better??

No don't think so. Adjustment could be less of a pain with a push on, but then at least a bolt on can't turn and brake the hydraulic lines. Or can it?

Mine has a note in the box that states that a stop is not needed. Think mine will get some sort of anchor plate.

Clarkson
11-05-06, 07:27 PM
No don't think so. Adjustment could be less of a pain with a push on, but then at least a bolt on can't turn and brake the hydraulic lines. Or can it?

Mine has a note in the box that states that a stop is not needed. Think mine will get some sort of anchor plate.

mmmm I wonder why that is?? I have a nice clutch pedel stop made up, will post some pics in the weekend. Just need to stop the slipping cluch now, maybe caused by no bearing clearance holding the clutch on.:mad:

slogger
11-05-06, 07:55 PM
mmmm I wonder why that is?? I have a nice clutch pedel stop made up, will post some pics in the weekend. Just need to stop the slipping cluch now, maybe caused by no bearing clearance holding the clutch on.:mad:


Sorry! It does need a pedal stop, but not a stop/stay to stop the thing turning in the bell housing.

Clarkson
12-05-06, 08:56 PM
Sorry! It does need a pedal stop, but not a stop/stay to stop the thing turning in the bell housing.

Hopefully Mr leaky will be going in the bin after le mans, Gonna fit a steel belhousing with a mini billet clutch fork and external slave cylinder (min) re: my other post about gearbox if I can get one cheap:eek: :eek: . Thanks Mr wilf.:)

slogger
12-05-06, 09:06 PM
Hopefully Mr leaky will be going in the bin after le mans, Gonna fit a steel belhousing with a mini billet clutch fork and external slave cylinder (min) re: my other post about gearbox if I can get one cheap:eek: :eek: . Thanks Mr wilf.:)

Sounds good to me! Will see how much room I have when lump is fitted. Could be a bit tight with the big block. A McLeaky may be for sale still boxed!!!!

dingocooke
13-05-06, 10:51 AM
So thats three Mr Leaky going on ebay!!
McLeod might just get the message!!

Im nearly there now with my pull slave conversion, slight hiccup, yesterday ordered new 0.750" master to get more slave stroke, it arrived today, I took the old master out (which I belived was 0.625") and its 0.70" Do'h!!!
So I have to return the 0.750 job unfitted, and order a 7/8 Wilwood master. Oh well at least its raining so I couldnt go out in it even if I had finished it...

Cue more grovelling around on my hands and knees..

Clarkson
13-05-06, 07:57 PM
Well got too problems sorted today... replaced a blowing manifold gasket, not an easy job!

And the other..... got my pedal stop fitted, which has now stopped it over throwing thank god!

slogger
13-05-06, 08:06 PM
Well got too problems sorted today... replaced a blowing manifold gasket, not an easy job!

And the other..... got my pedal stop fitted, which has now stopped it over throwing thank god!

Mr. C

Go steady................................:D

Robin427
31-05-06, 12:06 PM
Just fitted a pedal stop to my clutch today - makes a hell of a difference - gear changes are a lot smoother and faster. No squeaks either!! Thought my speedo was broken when it started reading 60 in a (zone that was not a 60 limit) but the GPS backed it up nicely... :D