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Kenco
04-12-06, 08:09 PM
Having only recently started to check out what was being said about Viper Cobra replica cars and kits, I can see that quite a lot of misinformation is being disseminated and a lot of owners of cars and kits
wondering about which version of a Viper they own. or maybe someone has recently bought a Cobra and been told it was a Viper, but they are not convinced. On top of this there appear to be at least a couple of individuals who have set themselves up as 'experts' in this marque and are dishing out either misleading information and or are expressing outright hostility to the marque. It therefore seems to me that the record must be set straight so all members have a clear, true picture of the history of this marque and whether the car or kit they have, is indeed a genuine Viper.

I say all this as the designer and ex owner of the companies that made the Viper from its inception in January 1986. Over the years I have read so much nonsense written about me and the companies I was involved in,
and much of it disseminated through magazines and books. Originally I started off as an agent for the Sheldonhurst company, but within a few months and after I have made a demonstrator, they went bankrupt. I was offered the moulds and chassis jigs by those companies who owned them, (not Sheldonhurst I may add) I declined them as I knew that the car needed and extensive redesign. As I had invested a considerable amount of money in getting started and as Sheldonhurst were totally out of business with no intent to restart, and as I had orders for kits and cars, I redesigned the chassis and body and made new jigs and body moulds. The car was then launched as the Viper in Jan 1986. I have to say that the body was originally a copy of the Dax Cobra with widened friont and rar arches. The copying was done by a person originally involved in the early days of Dax.
Within six months I had designed a new chassis to take Jaguar Ser1//2/3 running gear. My company name in those days was Brightwheel Ltd, and this was changed in early 1987 to Brightwheel Replicas Ltd and we were based in Christchurch. From then on we were very successful in our sales
and the we unlike other Cobra Replica manufacturers then, specialised in making fully built cars. 95% of all the cars we made went abroad to Japan and Europe where we had many agents. We went on upto late 1989 , and through these years I added a Cortina based kit with fibreglass floors and footwells as opposed to the all steel floors and footwells of the Granada and Jaguar based cars/kits. This was hugely successful as a kit in its sales. However I had taken on Two American backers who took over the company in early 1987, in order to provide monetry backing for our expansion. They turned out unfortunately like so many Yanks, to be all bull and not enough substance. Whilst money was put into the business which did help, not enough was put in the fund our success.
As a result it became necessary for me to issue them with an ultimatum in late 1989, to put in more capital to fund our runaway success, or I would be forced to resign the company. I was an employee not the owner of the company. They were unable to do this and I left the company. However I still owned the rights to all the designs and the Viper Trade Mark name, and some of the equipment and I negoitiated to buy off them other items of equipment which enabled me to continue on my own again. They closed the business down. This resulted in many people in the trade at the time and since who were in opposition to the Viper marque, and many in the Kitcar magazines, to jump on the band wagon and slag me off personally.
I then started in early 1990 a new business, Classic Replicas. Manufacturing only the Jaguar based Viper,I dropped the Granada version and so from hereon in all links to the Sheldonhurst finished. I was asked by my then London agents Cobretti Engineering to keep them on as my agents for Classic Replicas and I was happy to do so. However about this time the economy was in a downfall, and kit sales started to fall. Cobretti was responsible for the sales of kits on my behalf whilst I concentrated on export orders for fully built Vipers for Japan. All went Ok untill early 1991, when car orders all dried up and I was asked to go to my Swiss agent in Zurich area to personally build a very expensive hot racing Viper. I was happy to do this as I felt that whatever sales of kits were to be had, could easily be handled by Cobretti in my absence.
How wrong I was! At about the time of latish 1991 they (Cobretti) learnt
that Chrysler was trying to register the Trade Mark name of Viper. The next thing I know is that Cobretti has copied my Jaguar based Cobra 100% and was actually selling it in the UK as a Viper! They then went on to also copy my Cortina based kit with a few changes. Needless to say I started legal actions, which are too complicated and long to do justice to in a few words. These unfortunately dragged on because of the wonderful workings of our legal system for years. At the same time I had to oppose Chrysler. Of course by 1992 I had finished in Switzerland and then a car build in Germany, and was back in the UK to pick up the peices of what was left of my business which had been highjacked from me.
Eventually after six years I won against Chrysler and the Mark Viper was duly registered to me. Cobretti in 1992, in order to prove to Chrysler that they owned the Mark had put in their own application to also register the Mark. So I had to oppose them too, but despite overwhelming evidence of my rights etc I lost out in my opposition. So to confound matters for the Public you had a position where TWO people were making the IDENTICAL Cobra kit from mid 1991 to now. I had my hands tied in being able to stop this situation and the confusing of the Public. I complained to the Patent Office about the matter of them also registering the Mark to a second person ( against their own rules) and about many legal gaffs they had made over the years. Eventually they conduted an enquiry in early 2006 and found for me, and stripping Cobretti (Read Busbridge) of his ownership. He has appealed this and we all await the eventual outcome to this saga.
Howver all this has been absolutely no good for the Public because they could end up, all those who have bought Cobretti Viper copies, not having a Viper at all, in legal terms that is. I say this because it was decided that due to legal irregularities Cobretti should never have been allowed to proceed with their application to register the Mark Viper.This going back to 1992.
So in a nutshell there are cars and kits floating around in the UK that were made by Brightwheel Ltd to Jan 1987, then by Brightwheel Replicas Ltd to Sept 1989, then by Classic Replicas from 1990 to 2002. A Sierra based kit was brought out by CR in 1997/8. Then you have the copiers, firstly Cobretti/Autotrak/Autotrak Cobretti etc etc. Plus to confuse matters even more in 1990 ther was a further copier one DMS, who made a truly awful copy of the Cortina based Viper, which they called Venom. This only lasted a couple of years due to they appalling quality etc.
Now I have seen comments made by 'experts' that the Viper is a truly awful car to put together, which is patent nonsense. I personally have built over 300 Cobras in the past 20 years, including samples of ALL the major manufacturers. So I can say from EXPERIENCE that the Viper is no more difficult to build than any other make/model. I can only say that some people will struggle even with a Lego kit and they tend to blame the kit and not themselves. I also see people saying there was NEVER any build manual. I was the first manufactuere to have a build manual for Cobras, and my manuals were never slagged off. On top of this all builders were able to ring me personally 7 days a week, all day, with any questions. No other kit manufacturer offered this service! They got to talk with someone who had personal experience at buildings all kinds of Cobras.
Plusnmanyother models of kitcars as I also made Countach's, Aston Martins, Ferraris, Mini Mokes, etc etc. Since 2002, when I retired, the Viper was first sold to a local company to me, Cadini, who apart from selling a couple of kits, never did a thing with it. Certainly never built a car as I have seen reported. Since then it has passed onto a couple of owners, and I have licensed them to use the Viper name.
I will answer, through the Forum, questions for a limited time. I must say that it is possible that many people have bought kits that have been passed off as Vipers, (genuine ones are built by me, that is) Many will be Cobrettis, and I cannot comment on them. My car/kit was always written about during magazine tests, with praise for the quality and handling, and the strength and rigidity of the car as a whole. I never ever got bad press on the quality, hence why it was the most copied Cobra in the UK and was also copied extensively abroad, especially in Germany because they liked the wide arches) So a PROPERLY built kit becomes a car that is as good as any other well known Cobra Replica. Ken Cook

Purple AK
04-12-06, 08:40 PM
Ken. Firstly Welcome :thumb: The rest of your post will have to wait till tomorrow though :rolleyes: :D

Miket
04-12-06, 08:54 PM
Welcome, I also love your coffee and that new tassimo machine is great. :D :thumb:

Excellent post, well done. :thumb:

wilf
04-12-06, 09:14 PM
Ken - very interesting post, thanks for the history lesson.

One thing does jump out to me - you are obviously very experienced in building cars, and I think that may have lead you to be a little harsh when you say: "I can only say that some people will struggle even with a Lego kit and they tend to blame the kit and not themselves."

Having watched a pretty resourceful acquaintance through his build so far, I have to say that there are other kits out there I personally would find rather easier to build. But I will let the current Viper builders chime in.

Kenco
04-12-06, 10:30 PM
re yr observation on builds. I agree there ARE cobra kits that are maybe quicker to put together. Those that are are not as technically advanced as the Viper models are. On all the Viper models the rolling chassis work is dead simple. What does take more effort and technical ability is the putting on of the bodies and fitting of doors. However when done by someone with ablilty, if done properly the end result is a cobra superior in
in strength in relation to how the body is fitted to the chassis. Giving a stiffer car with NO RATTLES AND SQUEEKS you get from some other makes. Also results in avastly superior and strogly made car as opposed to some others.
I do have 40 odd years of experience in fibreglass including many years building power boats and including racing power boats. and the way my body fits to the chassis reflects that. No other Cobra has a body to chassis fitment the same as mine does. So you could say that some builders will struggle technically. As for fitting out, the rest of the car the Viper is no different than any other Cobra.

TINKA
04-12-06, 11:52 PM
I personally know of three people who are building Classic Replica Vipers and two bodies needed to be cut in half so that when the body was fitted the wheels were in the middle of the arches, not to mention numerous other modifications needed to be made on the basic shape of the body especially the boot area. As for the quality of the fibreglass the painter was horrified and more by one of the cars which needed to be turned over and have more layers added as the body was too thin and weak .All the hinges, pedal box & gearbox mount needed to be replaced as they were made of monkey metal and totally unsuitable for the job they were made for. The chassis for one of these cars was meant to take a jag V12 which it could not and when this was explained to you on the phone all you could say was " well ours does " not very helpful to someone struggling at this point. I have helped my mate with one of these cars and personally would say yes they could be a good car once assembled but you need to do far more work fabricating, modifying and changing things for it to even fit together. We have also found now that the shocks and springs supplied by you were wrong and most have had to be replaced.

Personally I think your post should be regarded with great caution as I have heard many stories so beware any one reading this

kayjayd
05-12-06, 06:19 AM
Fair play to you Ken for posting on here :thumb: I await reponses from the Viper lads with baited breath. Can opener for your worms anyone?

Miket
05-12-06, 10:39 AM
Where's Osgood when we need him. ;) :D

digger782
05-12-06, 11:15 AM
Hi
I have a Brightwheel and am very pleased with it.
It is on cortina base with RV8 I have a couple of friends who have Sumos and they also impressed with it.:thumb:
I must add that I have not built the car and it was registered as a Brightwheel in 1990 so over the years other owners will have fixed the problems. That said I live up in Lincs and drive around country lanes and have a large grin all the way.
I can not say how it compares’ with other kits on the track because its not for me.:eek:
I think the main point is that every kit is different and the most important thing is that the owner is proud and has fun with it. Graham :D :D :rolleyes:

Iain
05-12-06, 11:31 AM
I have just seen this post and I just could not resist posting.

Being a Viper owner/builder I to have my own opinions of the kit which (some) are :-

It does have the possibility of being a good kit.
Some of the mountings for the suspension and differential were not correct and took hack saws, trolley jacks and files to get anywhere close.
The body is just plain crap (I could use more basic terminoligy if you wish) - See below
The brackets you get with the kit may as well go straight in the bin.
The shock absorbers and springs purchased from Ken Cook specifically for that particular kit do not fit.
Some of the fibreglass panels designed for the kit do not fit (may aswell throw away as I had to make my own).
I gave up with technical support soon after discovering my first problem when the infamous phrase "well mine does" was said.That's just for starters.

As for the body (specifically) :-
The mould is crap
The mould was not put together properly when my body was made producing LARGE ridges down the seams
Whoever made the body could not be bothered to use a release agent and so had to use a hammer to get the body out of the mold... Hmmm... Lovely star (spider) cracks...
The person who made my body had an aversion to using fibreglass. The body was so thing I have had to layer up the inside just to make it adequate!
The body does not fit the chassis (or my chassis anyway) as I had to cut it in half to get it to fit the arches properly)... Was the chassis made on a jig???... probably not!
The doors do not match
The doors hardly fit the apertures
The bonnet inner skin was not bonded to the outer skin therefore I had to cut out the inner skinso that the scoop was accessible
The boot is completely a different shape to the boot aperture. The boot was nearly cut in half and bonded back together in the correct shape.
Quality of the fibreglassing is very poor. Fibreglass was not formed properly into corners and as such you just get the gelcote holding the shape in the mold. Press on it and you go through the gelcote and there is a big hole underneath where the fibreglass has not layered up properly.That's a reasonable start as I don't want to go into too much detail just yet! :D

I will allow the coffee man to retort! :boohoo:

Yes Ken... I bought my Viper from you! What a mistake to make! Feel free to look through some of my previous posts. You will get a true feeling of what a joy this kit has been to build so far!

Iain
05-12-06, 11:59 AM
Also, I found this link which may be of some use to people reading this thread...

http://www.cobrettiviperv8.com/aboutviperbob.html

:cool:

osgood
05-12-06, 12:39 PM
Where's Osgood when we need him. ;) :D

Hello Mike yes I am here ;) . Hello Ken and welcome long time no speaky :thumb:. Yes I have got a few words to say in defense of my favorite mark and I shall return latter today with my comments, WATCH THIS SPACE!

Osgood High Wycombe :)

dave
05-12-06, 05:23 PM
Slightly off topic.
Did Tim Dutton get a payout from Ford for the Sierra name?

kevchard
05-12-06, 05:36 PM
Hi Ken
I would like to thankyou for the history lesson, that we found interesting and informative :) .
Regarding the kit / 100% replicas of your kit where can we start?
Helen and I both love the look of the flared arches, hence buying a part started 'Cobretti' Viper.
After a bit of rooting about, we found it is probably a DMS Venom Viper (cortina running gear, round fibreglass tunnel, fibreglass floor).

i) The gelcoat is crazed to hell
i) Passenger front wheel is not in centre of the arch (so arch needed mods)
i) Bootlid is too thick on some edges and too thin on others
i) Doors are too thick on some edges, too thin on others, too big gaps in some places, too much fibreglass in others (eg c##p fit)
i) Bonnet too thick / thin c##p gaps
i) All brackets need making from scratch
i) Door hinges are dreadful design from 'malaysian monkey metal'
i) Floorpan does not rest on all parts of the metal chassis
i) Door reveals are not deep enough, so needed mods
i) Bonnet / boot reveals are un uniform depth, so needed mods

Don't get me wrong, i am not saying it is a bad marque. The design looks strong, i am not engineer, but speaking from commom sense the car looks solid.
I find it offensive that you say that it is the builders fault that the builds are awkward. These kits are not bolt together jobs, with bits available off the shelf. We have to design, build, fit, modify, refit every bracket that goes on the car.
I am not saying either that the DAX, Pilgrim, AK, GD etc brigade are not proper kit car makers, but us viperites (is that a word?), have an uphill struggle.
Thankyou for dessigning the kit, as i have learnt metal work skills, fibreglass skills, body filling skills, welding skills, wiring skills and patience since starting this beast 3 1/2 years ago :thumb: .
I sometimes regret buying it, but am overall well chuffed with the result :thumb: .

Kenco
05-12-06, 08:41 PM
Well well we do have some bitter and twisted individuals out there!!!
I am generally only prepared to answer questions on whether someone has actually got a Viper or a copy. I cannot spend endless time answering technical questions especially as the person may not have a Viper at all.
This time I will answer some of the 'comments' made in order to clear the decks on some points brought up.
Firstly I must say I am not prepared to engage in conversation with individuals who haven' even got Vipers, and here I refer to three AK owners who feel obliged to put their pennyworths in. I learnt very early in the 20 years in the kitcar industry that many owners of other Cobra makes, were insanely scathing about other makes of Cobra. Slagging them off in all directions. They were all instant 'experts' in other marques which they did not even own. These individuals should stick to commenting on AK's only, as they lay themselves open to being accused of being 'biased'. The only retort I will make is that as far as V12's go, I have personally built 15, 12 of which went to a Japanese Jag dealer.and they were good enough for him and Japs are extremely fussy buyers. I will not have it that the V12 chassis will not take a V12!!!
To Digger...."Good on ya Mate" nice to hear some nice remaks for a change!!
To the self confessed EXPERT Iain I say this. Firstly your name and location does not bring to my memory any recognition that you bought the kit (what model of kit you do not say) off me. Nor do you say when you bought your kit.
You strike me as being exceeding bitter and twisted and the way you comment would not really elicit responses from a lot of people. Reading between the lines of your comments it is clear to me that you are out of your depth in trying to build a Cobra, as you seem to have found fault in absolutely everything. I know from experience that people who make many such complaints, really don't know what they are doing and lack the real experience needed to build what is one of the harder kitcar models to build. All Cobras I mean. All your comments about chassis, body fitment and bonnet/boot and door fitments, fiberglass, shoks and springs, mould, etc etc all show that you had difficulties due to lack of experience, to put the car together and I know that in all the areas you mention, you are wrong.
As i said in my story,I personally have made probably more fully built Cobra replicas than anyone in the UK. So my kits that I sold had been made into cars by me or people employed by me. So I know that everything fitted. Be it onto the chassis or fiberglass panels and bonnet/boots and doors. Similarly all the hinges and brackets etc were more than upto the job and your comments about the steel are just laughable. Steel is steel,and never before has anyone said that the steel used in the making of the chassis and other components was 'monkey steel' whatever that is.
If you had a Viper you would have had a build manual, and if you followed that implicitly, you would not have had any problems. However judging by your comments and the way you made them I would say that if you had a manual you probably didn't read it as you already knew in advance how to do everything, as your an expert and you'd do it your way and without referring to a manual.
Re your reference to maybe talking to me ? if you did and I told you you were mistaken as the problem you were complaining about was not a legitimate complaint as I in my builds did not have this problem, I guess that would send you into a rage. being as your never wrong. Over the years I had only a handful of customers who made such complaints as your making, and I sold many kits to professionals and engineers. Most were quite satisfied and went onto building good cars. I wonder just how many Cobras you have built (or any other kits) I retired in Feb 2001 and we are now in late 2006 and it seems you are still building. I think that says it all really. I will say this though I will not make any further comments on whatever you may now say,as these are the only comments I will make on build matters. All future comments as I said will strictly be only on identifications.

Kenco
06-12-06, 07:30 PM
If Iain can state when he bought his kit,and what kit model it is (Jag,Cortina, Granada or Sierra,) and when he he tried to get technical help and was ellegedly told he did not have a problem, this would help to identify if it is a real Viper.
I say this as the long list of complaints he has are not faults I have come accross in my Viper models. and had they been a recurring and common fault of my Vipers then I would have suffered the same problems thus making all the builds I did a nightmare and therefore making me being unable to build a car and make any money on the exercise. Ken

Kenco
06-12-06, 07:43 PM
Re Kevcards reply. If you bought a Cobretti Viper or a DMS ( see my remarks on them) then I cannot comment on all the problems you listas none of them existed on any of the Viper models I sold. It sounds as if the model of Cobra you have is a Cortina based kit. So it could be DMS but not a Cobretti copy as they did not copy my Cortina with the F/G floors. Their copy had the same chassis but with metal floors. I sold the last Cortina MK1's in 1989, so if it was one of mine it is pretty old. and if a kit lies around for years and is abused you will get crazing on gel coats.If it has a Sierra back end it could be one of my Sierra Mk1's. kenco

robert
06-12-06, 07:51 PM
Ken

If you are going to insult our members, then you are not welcome on here.

Please refer to the forum rules.

Purple AK
06-12-06, 08:21 PM
If Iain can state when he bought his kit,and what kit model it is (Jag,Cortina, Granada or Sierra,) and when he he tried to get technical help and was ellegedly told he did not have a problem, this would help to identify if it is a real Viper.
I say this as the long list of complaints he has are not faults I have come accross in my Viper models. and had they been a recurring and common fault of my Vipers then I would have suffered the same problems thus making all the builds I did a nightmare and therefore making me being unable to build a car and make any money on the exercise. Ken
Ken. Which part of "I bought it from you" is a problem??

steamyrotter
06-12-06, 10:20 PM
Ken

Hi

I too have the same type as Kevchard.
I got it from someone who got it from someone etc etc. All in all I think I am the 6th owner but first builder.. See other threads for definitions of "Builder" as you infer ( I believe) that some kits are akin to lego, these certainly are not.

There was no manual supplied, so if you have a copy of one it would be appreciated if you could pass one on.

Mine has a fibre glass floor, with a rounded transmission tunnel.
Bob said he never did round tunnels so have ruled out it being cobretti.
Were any of your sold as kits comprising of these rounded transmission tunnels?? It would be nice to finally identify it for sure.

Like Kev I have learnt a lot of new skills in my endeavours and am enjoying the challenges therein.

I have not got many quibbles about it and went into it with my eyes open so will only have myself to blame (plus trying to put a rover v8 in a ford v6 chassis is less than ideal!!)
I am modifying things to suit my taste and plans so do not have cause for major complaint. I know the components I have are in no way the most perfect ones but this is accountable for from the age and technology (I believe it is mid 80's?) however there is nothing that cannot be sorted one way or another. As has been said elsewhere there are no engineering challenges that cannot be overcome with a suitably sized hammer!

I have resolved myself to not having a manufacturers support but have gained a lot of very useful information and assistance from a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site so please do not attack them for offering help, support and banter.

Regards

Kenco
06-12-06, 10:30 PM
To Robert. I do not understand what you mean. I have read through the posted threads of mine and cannot see any instances of insulting anyone. However on the other hand I can see MANY instances where I have been "insulted" by a number of members and this seems to be OK? For instance one member said I was obnoxious.Someone whom I do not even know. If you read other comments,I have been "slagged " off well and truly in as much as the product I produced has been "slagged" off. Even though it is not clear if the kits that were being slagged off were even one of my Vipers.
If you are the Robert who controls this site then why cannot you DIRECTLY direct your comments to me instead of posting them?? and give me the instance you are referring to.(you would have my direct email address to do this.If you are not the Rob running this site why is a member who is connected to GD bothering about what is being said about Vipers? There seems to be some double standards here.

Iain
06-12-06, 10:39 PM
Ken. Which part of "I bought it from you" is a problem??

Thanks Chris. At least someone can read...

Ken, you delivered the kit personally to me on December 11 1999. Yes folks... my problems have stemmed that far back. It is a V12 chassis that you dug up for me with an extended drivers footwell. For the benifit of not only Ken Cook but all the people interested in this thread I have put a few images up on my EZ Photo Shed gallery.

The link is here :- http://cluster.ezphotoshed.com/users/Iain/galleries/597/index.html

This is my car setup with the suspension (at it's lowest possible setting) as supplied by Ken Cook
http://cluster.ezphotoshed.com/users/Iain/photos/1165446837-1.jpg


This is my car setup with the suspension as configured by myself and a few friends (forgive me for not naming you but I do not wish you to get involved in this)
http://cluster.ezphotoshed.com/users/Iain/photos/1165446839-2.jpg

Answers on a postcard which setup looks best please!

Ken, I don't suppose you are going to offer me a refund for the useless suspension you sold me are you? I still have it if you want it back!

I will not post the other images here so you will have to reffer to the gallery (link above)

The image "Wishbone problem" just highlights one of the many errors in the chassis. The tube that the lower wishbone mounts to was actually too long. It was an incredibly tight fit just to mount as shown in the photo and that was before I had to fit the washers that are seen resting on top of that tube. I had to cut both sides down (both sides of the car) to get them to fit.

The remaining images are just a small selection highlighting the extensive chassis modifications made to attempt to get the V12 engine in. I must highlight that the V12 chassis was designed to take the very same V12 engine I was trying to fit.
Oh and Ken, if you are going to start having a go at me for not getting the engine in the right position then you can think again. There is absolutely no reference to the fitment of the V12 engine into the V12 chassis in your superb build manual. I hasten to add that the supplied manual was as you said "the only one I have" and was based around a V8 chassis for a left hand drive car fitted with a Rover V8 engine. I found that very helpful in the build of my right hand drive V12 chassis with a Jag V12 engine! :mad:
When I did phone you to talk about it and said that the engine would not fit, that is when I got my reply from you "well mine does" I took the measurements you requested and let you know them. You were going to go out and measure your car. I never did get that phone call....

End of Round 2.

Who's scoring this? :D

Cheers...

Miket
06-12-06, 10:39 PM
Ken

I don't know you, I've heard your named mentioned on various occasions, but not under the name of Ken Cook, I think there was a few more names added in between.

Anyway getting to the point, I can't understand why you originally posted if you didn't want to be selected for a public hanging. :confused: :confused:

Kenco
06-12-06, 10:43 PM
To Steamy Rotter. Well nice to read a pleasant reply for a change. Well your history I am afraid is one that one hears of many times. A kit that gets passed around many times before it ever actually gets started or even built. Along the way all sorts get lost off it and or damaged. ALL MY KITS went out with COMPREHENSIVE build manuals. Sorry but as I am long retired from the industry and sold on the business along with all the masters of the manuals, I cannot help you on that score. As I have stated previously Cobretti did not make a f/g floored Cortina copy. He turned his copy into a metal floor. Mine did indeed have a rounded trans tunnel. I cannot really remember if DMS's copy also copied that trans tunnel or changed it into a squared off one (I think they did) I think your very unwise to have stuck a V8 into that Cortina chassis and the Cortina running gear. Although you may get away with it if it is only a standard Rover 140BHP engine. Being ally its lighter than a Ford V6. Make sure your brakes work!! Anyway nice talking to you and the best of luck in your build.

Iain
06-12-06, 10:49 PM
ALL MY KITS went out with COMPREHENSIVE build manuals.

Maybe not complete (missing photos as mine has) and certainly not correct for the kit you are building (again, in my case). See above post! :D

steamyrotter
06-12-06, 10:51 PM
Thanks Ken

Here are a few pic's of the bare stuff when i got it....
could you confirm if it is BW or CR

Regards

PS uprated brakes to 4 pots..
Rear disks to follow one day!

Kenco
06-12-06, 10:55 PM
To Iain. Cannot say I remember you, but thats not unduly surprising due to the time elapsed. What I will say though is that you come across as very aggressive and insulting making many insinuations between the lines. I could answer each and every one of your comments but do not feel inclined to unless I can have your assurance that you will cease the sniping from now on and resort to some civilsed dialogue. All the comments you have come up with upto now in your extensive slagging off of me and my kit, can be answered. But as i say why should I if all that is going to happen is more slagging off??

Kenco
06-12-06, 11:01 PM
To steamy rotter. It would be only a Brightweel Replicas Viper 4. made no later than August 1989 and no earlier than April 1989. Hope that helps.

Iain
06-12-06, 11:02 PM
Okay Ken I will play nice for now. You must understand the bitterness I have considering the amount of problems I have had, the lack of technical assistance I have had and the general bad feeling. When you sold the kit, I spoke to John Cadman myself with regards to the Viper and his reason for the sale to Adrian Percival at Cheshire Kit Cars was because of all the bad blood that he had inherited from unhappy Classic Replicas Viper customers. I believe that very same bad blood passed on to Adrian Percival (again, I had spoken with him many times about the kit and problems) and I think that is where Classic Replicas ended.

So, could you please explain what I have shown so far?

Why all the problems, incorrect information, incorrect parts etc.

steamyrotter
06-12-06, 11:03 PM
Ken

Many thanks

Nice to actually be able to place it
(not too sure what you are implying with "only":D )

Cheers

robert
06-12-06, 11:14 PM
To Robert. I do not understand what you mean. I have read through the posted threads of mine and cannot see any instances of insulting anyone. However on the other hand I can see MANY instances where I have been "insulted" by a number of members and this seems to be OK? For instance one member said I was obnoxious.Someone whom I do not even know. If you read other comments,I have been "slagged " off well and truly in as much as the product I produced has been "slagged" off. Even though it is not clear if the kits that were being slagged off were even one of my Vipers.
If you are the Robert who controls this site then why cannot you DIRECTLY direct your comments to me instead of posting them?? and give me the instance you are referring to.(you would have my direct email address to do this.If you are not the Rob running this site why is a member who is connected to GD bothering about what is being said about Vipers? There seems to be some double standards here.


Ken

Yes, I am the Robert who controls this site and for your information I am not connected to GD, I have one of their cars.

Secondly, I have read your posts and to be honest, your attitude really sucksit smacks of the standard manufacturer (or in your case ex) blurb which sys what a wonderful product I have. However when ANYONE calls into question your product, you attack them, not very supportive I must say.


You strike me as being exceeding bitter and twisted and the way you comment would not really elicit responses from a lot of people. Reading between the lines of your comments it is clear to me that you are out of your depth in trying to build a Cobra, as you seem to have found fault in absolutely everything. I know from experience that people who make many such complaints, really don't know what they are doing and lack the real experience needed to build what is one of the harder kitcar models to build.

See what I mean??

Kenco
06-12-06, 11:16 PM
To steamy. I mean that only B/W made this particular model no one else.

To Ian Sorry I cannot hack your agressiveness and hidden threats. You cannot keep coming out with all this stuff and now bringing into the arena things about my past business that are of no concern to anyone in the Club especially as you are peddling unsubstantiated third hand gossip (about Cadini and Percival...non of which is remotely true or anything to do with your kit or this forum) If you want to supply with with your private email I will address each and every comment you have made on your kit, in private.

Iain
06-12-06, 11:25 PM
To Ian Sorry I cannot hack your agressiveness and hidden threats. You cannot keep coming out with all this stuff and now bringing into the arena things about my past business that are of no concern to anyone in the Club especially as you are peddling unsubstantiated third hand gossip (about Cadini and Percival...non of which is remotely true or anything to do with your kit or this forum) If you want to supply with with your private email I will address each and every comment you have made on your kit, in private.


To Cen (being as you cannot spell my name correctly)

My last post was not aggressive in anyway (and I saw no threat either). I was in fact trying to express to you why I was feeling so sour towards the posts you have made so far. My comments were genuine. I have spoken to John Cadman and Adrian Pervical at great length but as is your wish I will mention that no more.

However, this reply back to me just indicates that you do not infact have any answers to my questions, just as I suspected. I do not want to give you my personal e-mail address as anything I say to you I am happy for anyone in the Cobra Club to see. I have nothing to hide! Do you?

Deck
06-12-06, 11:27 PM
Hello Mr Cooke, finally!
It appears that I am in the enviable position of actually, with original recipt and "manual", owning a 1998 Classic Replicas Viper IV Sierra based Kit car.

I, of course, bought it second hand off a heart broken man because I naiively believed that, as a product designer with a full workshop at my disposal, if I can't finish it noone can... Pride eh?!

I have so far put hundreds of hours into it and I therefore feel I have the extensive first hand experience to justfy the deep, deep resentment I feel to your original post.

You remind me of my old friend, the one who used to play his computer games every spare hour and when I would call around he would continually thrash me, pointing out signs of improvement but always taking a certain superiority and enjoyment out of my frustration and inability to beat him. Of course I didn't really care as I had other things to do the rest of the time, and he was fun to watch, but...

It appears to me, Mr Cooke, that your extensive knowledge of building kit cars has removed you from the expected ability of the average person, or even the trained professional! You probably know, off hand, more information in the proper building of kits than the rest of this forum combined...at the very least, too much to be able to say what should and shouldn't be within the abilities of mere amateur normal builders.

I have had to get such a fundamental grasp of the assemblies in this project in order to fit the parts, that I have been able to improve them as I go...not, I believe, what should be required to assemble a kit.

I'll merely refer you to other posts with regard to parts quality.
Would you believe that you made, or allowed to be sold on your behalf, a bodyshell that has between 5 and 10mm offsets from one side of the splitline to the other? Seriously! a 10 millimitre STEP running the length of the front wings...Quality!! If I had known what I was looking at...but I didn't...

Thanks for the history lesson.

And thanks for giving me such a bad body shell that I could come to the conclusion that, as there is so much work to do, major modifications won't really be adding too much work to the job thus indulging my creativity.


Enjoy your retirement.

Declan

TINKA
06-12-06, 11:30 PM
Bit of a loss here after spending probably over £20,000 and still going through the mill with all the problems he is having, you are surprised that he is so pissed off. I think instead of acting all high and mighty you should answer some of Iain's questions as It was you who opened the can of worms in the first place. Oh and by the way where is it that he has got so personal and insulting against you. :confused: :confused:

Iain
06-12-06, 11:35 PM
Would you believe that you made, or allowed to be sold on your behalf, a bodyshell that has between 5 and 10mm offsets from one side of the splitline to the other? Seriously! a 10 millimitre STEP running the length of the front wings...Quality!!


Hi Deck,

How's it going mate?

You had the step in the body too then... nothing that a bit of filler won't cure.... rotflmao :rotfl:

Purple AK
07-12-06, 08:49 AM
To Robert. I do not understand what you mean. I have read through the posted threads of mine and cannot see any instances of insulting anyone. However on the other hand I can see MANY instances where I have been "insulted" by a number of members and this seems to be OK? For instance one member said I was obnoxious.Someone whom I do not even know. If you read other comments,I have been "slagged " off well and truly in as much as the product I produced has been "slagged" off. Even though it is not clear if the kits that were being slagged off were even one of my Vipers.

Ken. From an independant unbiased viewpoint.



Having only recently started to check out what was being said about Viper Cobra replica cars and kits, I can see that quite a lot of misinformation is being disseminated and a lot of owners of cars and kits
wondering about which version of a Viper they own. or maybe someone has recently bought a Cobra and been told it was a Viper, but they are not convinced. On top of this there appear to be at least a couple of individuals who have set themselves up as 'experts' in this marque and are dishing out either misleading information and or are expressing outright hostility to the marque. It therefore seems to me that the record must be set straight so all members have a clear, true picture of the history of this marque and whether the car or kit they have, is indeed a genuine Viper.

I say all this as the designer and ex owner of the companies that made the Viper from its inception in January 1986. Over the years I have read so much nonsense written about me and the companies I was involved in,
and much of it disseminated through magazines and books. Originally I started off as an agent for the Sheldonhurst company, but within a few months and after I have made a demonstrator, they went bankrupt. I was offered the moulds and chassis jigs by those companies who owned them, (not Sheldonhurst I may add) I declined them as I knew that the car needed and extensive redesign. As I had invested a considerable amount of money in getting started and as Sheldonhurst were totally out of business with no intent to restart, and as I had orders for kits and cars, I redesigned the chassis and body and made new jigs and body moulds. The car was then launched as the Viper in Jan 1986. I have to say that the body was originally a copy of the Dax Cobra with widened friont and rar arches. The copying was done by a person originally involved in the early days of Dax.
Within six months I had designed a new chassis to take Jaguar Ser1//2/3 running gear. My company name in those days was Brightwheel Ltd, and this was changed in early 1987 to Brightwheel Replicas Ltd and we were based in Christchurch. From then on we were very successful in our sales
and the we unlike other Cobra Replica manufacturers then, specialised in making fully built cars. 95% of all the cars we made went abroad to Japan and Europe where we had many agents. We went on upto late 1989 , and through these years I added a Cortina based kit with fibreglass floors and footwells as opposed to the all steel floors and footwells of the Granada and Jaguar based cars/kits. This was hugely successful as a kit in its sales. Two American backers who took over the company in early 1987, in order to provide monetry backing for our expansion. They turned out unfortunately like so many Yanks, to be all bull and not enough substance. Whilst money was put into the business which did help, not enough was put in the fund our success.
As a result it became necessary for me to issue them with an ultimatum in late 1989, to put in more capital to fund our runaway success, or I would be forced to resign the company. I was an employee not the owner of the company. They were unable to do this and I left the company. However I still owned the rights to all the designs and the Viper Trade Mark name, and some of the equipment and I negoitiated to buy off them other items of equipment which enabled me to continue on my own again. They closed the business down. This resulted in many people in the trade at the time and since who were in opposition to the Viper marque, and many in the Kitcar magazines, to jump on the band wagon and slag me off personally.
I then started in early 1990 a new business, Classic Replicas. Manufacturing only the Jaguar based Viper,I dropped the Granada version and so from hereon in all links to the Sheldonhurst finished. I was asked by my then London agents Cobretti Engineering to keep them on as my agents for Classic Replicas and I was happy to do so. However about this time the economy was in a downfall, and kit sales started to fall. Cobretti was responsible for the sales of kits on my behalf whilst I concentrated on export orders for fully built Vipers for Japan. All went Ok untill early 1991, when car orders all dried up and I was asked to go to my Swiss agent in Zurich area to personally build a very expensive hot racing Viper. I was happy to do this as I felt that whatever sales of kits were to be had, could easily be handled by Cobretti in my absence.
How wrong I was! At about the time of latish 1991 they (Cobretti) learnt
that Chrysler was trying to register the Trade Mark name of Viper. The next thing I know is that Cobretti has copied my Jaguar based Cobra 100% and was actually selling it in the UK as a Viper! They then went on to also copy my Cortina based kit with a few changes. Needless to say I started legal actions, which are too complicated and long to do justice to in a few words. These unfortunately dragged on because of the wonderful workings of our legal system for years. At the same time I had to oppose Chrysler. Of course by 1992 I had finished in Switzerland and then a car build in Germany, and was back in the UK to pick up the peices of what was left of my business which had been highjacked from me.
Eventually after six years I won against Chrysler and the Mark Viper was duly registered to me. Cobretti in 1992, in order to prove to Chrysler that they owned the Mark had put in their own application to also register the Mark. So I had to oppose them too, but despite overwhelming evidence of my rights etc I lost out in my opposition. So to confound matters for the Public you had a position where TWO people were making the IDENTICAL Cobra kit from mid 1991 to now. I had my hands tied in being able to stop this situation and the confusing of the Public. I complained to the Patent Office about the matter of them also registering the Mark to a second person ( against their own rules) and about many legal gaffs they had made over the years. Eventually they conduted an enquiry in early 2006 and found for me, and stripping Cobretti (Read Busbridge) of his ownership. He has appealed this and we all await the eventual outcome to this saga.
Howver all this has been absolutely no good for the Public because they could end up, all those who have bought Cobretti Viper copies, not having a Viper at all, in legal terms that is. I say this because it was decided that due to legal irregularities Cobretti should never have been allowed to proceed with their application to register the Mark Viper.This going back to 1992.
So in a nutshell there are cars and kits floating around in the UK that were made by Brightwheel Ltd to Jan 1987, then by Brightwheel Replicas Ltd to Sept 1989, then by Classic Replicas from 1990 to 2002. A Sierra based kit was brought out by CR in 1997/8. Then you have the copiers, firstly Cobretti/Autotrak/Autotrak Cobretti etc etc. Plus to confuse matters even more in 1990 ther was a further copier one DMS, who made a truly awful copy of the Cortina based Viper, which they called Venom. This only lasted a couple of years due to they appalling quality etc.
Now I have seen comments made by 'experts' that the Viper is a truly awful car to put together, which is patent nonsense. I personally have built over 300 Cobras in the past 20 years, including samples of ALL the major manufacturers. So I can say from EXPERIENCE that the Viper is no more difficult to build than any other make/model. I can only say that some people will struggle even with a Lego kit and they tend to blame the kit and not themselves. I also see people saying there was NEVER any build manual. I was the first manufactuere to have a build manual for Cobras, and my manuals were never slagged off. On top of this all builders were able to ring me personally 7 days a week, all day, with any questions. No other kit manufacturer offered this service! They got to talk with someone who had personal experience at buildings all kinds of Cobras.
Plusnmanyother models of kitcars as I also made Countach's, Aston Martins, Ferraris, Mini Mokes, etc etc. Since 2002, when I retired, the Viper was first sold to a local company to me, Cadini, who apart from selling a couple of kits, never did a thing with it. Certainly never built a car as I have seen reported. Since then it has passed onto a couple of owners, and I have licensed them to use the Viper name.
I will answer, through the Forum, questions for a limited time. I must say that it is possible that many people have bought kits that have been passed off as Vipers, (genuine ones are built by me, that is) Many will be Cobrettis, and I cannot comment on them. My car/kit was always written about during magazine tests, with praise for the quality and handling, and the strength and rigidity of the car as a whole. I never ever got bad press on the quality, hence why it was the most copied Cobra in the UK and was also copied extensively abroad, especially in Germany because they liked the wide arches) So a PROPERLY built kit becomes a car that is as good as any other well known Cobra Replica. Ken Cook


You started this thread, complete with insults! So why now are you supprised that people are having a go?

wilf
07-12-06, 12:28 PM
I think we have good competition for Mr Bliar here. Look out Browny - there is a pretender to your (expected) throne!

Step up Mr Cooke! You have the makings of a fine politician. If confronted with facts, then retaliate by attacking the legitmacy of the person holding said facts. Whatever you do, don't accept the validity of said facts. Avoid even commenting on them, in fact, carry on as if they don't exist at all. Pretty standard politco stuff.

You don't happen to have a report on the whereabouts of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, do you? Although I suspect words of mass deception might be more to your liking.

Frankly, the kitcar industry is a far better place for your having retired from it. Now go away and enjoy your retirement, some of us still have an interest in this hobby.

Rob - in all seriousness, this is a troll. Ban it.

robert
07-12-06, 12:32 PM
Rob - in all seriousness, this is a troll. Ban it.

He has been banned for 10 days anyhow.

wilf
07-12-06, 12:59 PM
Do you think we should have been more respectful due to his age? :rotfl: :rotfl:

I mean, in some cultures, the elders are venerated and feted.

Mind you, I think they maybe have to have some slight connection to the real world before they get that. :D

Iain
07-12-06, 01:17 PM
Poor old Cen! :rotfl:

Banned... :rotfl:

Oh how I feel for him... :D

Cheers...

digger782
07-12-06, 08:19 PM
:( Well I am totally confused after all the information given here.
I bought my cobra as a Brightwheel (V5) and it is built on a Cortina base.
The floors are fibreglass but the tunnel is box shape (and not rounded ) which our Mr. Clarke says he never built.
From what people have been saying could be a good thing as all my panels fit “well”
So I am now trying to find what my kit is!!?
Any ideas:rolleyes:

Kenco
07-12-06, 09:31 PM
To Digger Have checked my photos of teh B/W Cortina chassis and the trans tunnel is squared box so you do have a Bightwheel. Ken Cook ( not Clarke)

robert
07-12-06, 09:35 PM
To Digger Have checked my photos of teh B/W Cortina chassis and the trans tunnel is squared box so you do have a Bightwheel. Ken Cook ( not Clarke)

Obviously the red card system doesn't work. Must look into that, seeing as you are here, be nice to our users please.

dave
07-12-06, 09:39 PM
Isn't that Ken Clarke the bloke who is making driving in out capital an adventure?

Iain
07-12-06, 11:23 PM
So come on Ken.... Enlighten me/us. What are the reasons for the troubles I have had wit my build. I can assure you that the problems listed is not the entire list, just some highlights. :(

Seriously, I would appreciate it if you were able to explain them... :thumb:

Cheers...

kevchard
08-12-06, 07:19 AM
I am confused again now :confused:
We have exactly the same model as Steamy Rotter (round tunnel, f/g floor, flared arches, corty front and rear axles). We have bought it at least 3rd hand, so can't pin point an approx date.
One of the other members i have contacted, bought his new as a DMS Venom Viper and his is identical to ours and Steamys'.
Is there any way that DMS could have produced a 'round tunneled' version?
Cheers

COBRA KEV01
08-12-06, 02:43 PM
Obviously the red card system doesn't work. Must look into that, seeing as you are here, be nice to our users please.



Yes, thats not fair, Osgood and myself were given red cards,get it sorted,pronto. heehee
I must say this site has got very interesting recently,what with all the political arguing with Den and his mate from Which Kit(even having their own thread) and now ill be blown Mr Crook comes out of the woodwork i don't suppose you are paying theses guys are you Robert?!

robert
08-12-06, 02:46 PM
i don't suppose you are paying theses guys are you Robert?!

They ought to be paying me for services rendered to ranting. :rotfl::rotfl:

dingocooke
08-12-06, 03:27 PM
I just thought it had just become a hideout for tourettes sufferers..well be seeing fecking Gordon fecking Ramsey quite fecking soon..

dingocooke
08-12-06, 03:29 PM
Isn't that Ken Clarke the bloke who is making driving in out capital an adventure?

nah thats Ken livingstone; Ken Clarke is the fat cigar smoking son of a Jeweller who is an MP in Notts..

stevee8
08-12-06, 06:31 PM
I don't know what all the fuss is about !!

Each of you clearly owns an Autobrightvipdmscob. :D

Kenco
08-12-06, 07:09 PM
To steamy rotter. You have a DMS copy of my Viper4. They changed the floor pan as they were unable to copy mine, to rounded tras tunnel.

Purple AK
08-12-06, 07:29 PM
To steamy rotter. You have a DMS copy of my Viper4. They changed the floor pan as they were unable to copy mine, to rounded tras tunnel.


Mine did indeed have a rounded trans tunnel. I cannot really remember if DMS's copy also copied that trans tunnel or changed it into a squared off one.

So Ken. Which of your versions are we going with????????? :confused: :rolleyes:

Purple AK
08-12-06, 08:01 PM
OK. You've had 30 minutes to think up a reply. Can it be that difficult?

Purple AK
08-12-06, 08:44 PM
No Answer Ken? OK a tip from me then :thumb: To be a good liar, You need a good memory ;) Those that know me, Or more importantly LIZ will say that we don't suffer fools gladly. YOU started this thread ;)

robert
08-12-06, 08:45 PM
No Answer Ken? OK a tip from me then :thumb: To be a good liar, You need a good memory ;) Those that know me, Or more importantly LIZ will say that we don't suffer fools gladly. YOU started this thread ;)

Chris

Point made, leave him alone.

Purple AK
08-12-06, 08:48 PM
Chris

Point made, leave him alone.
:thumb: As Said. POINT MADE ;)

Purple AK
08-12-06, 09:05 PM
Chris

Point made, leave him alone.
NO Sorry. Actualy the guy came on here Flamming people that were struggling with his products. And can't address/reconise his own products failings. Despite the fact that he has had their money and retired on it! And now tries to palm them off with "It wasn't me" !!!

kevchard
08-12-06, 09:06 PM
I don't know what all the fuss is about !!

Each of you clearly owns an Autobrightvipdmscob. :D


LOL, I finally know why i have been calling the car a B######d since day one, no one knows where it was born from :D :D

kevchard
08-12-06, 09:07 PM
NO Sorry. Actualy the guy came on here Flamming people that were struggling with his products. And can't address/reconise his own products failings. Despite the fact that he has had their money and retired on it! And now tries to palm them off with "It wasn't me" !!!


FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Purple AK
08-12-06, 09:10 PM
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT :thumb: :thumb:
Nope I'm too old :D Just a statement of DOUBLE STANDARDS ;)

kevchard
08-12-06, 09:12 PM
I still think Dean, Ceejay and myself have DMS beasts. Unless anyone else can come up with evidence otherwise, i will register ours as such.

robert
08-12-06, 09:15 PM
NO Sorry. Actualy the guy came on here Flamming people that were struggling with his products. And can't address/reconise his own products failings. Despite the fact that he has had their money and retired on it! And now tries to palm them off with "It wasn't me" !!!

Yes, and you have made your point and had your say, time to move on.

robert
08-12-06, 09:16 PM
Nope I'm too old :D Just a statement of DOUBLE STANDARDS ;)

Why is it double standards, I have pointed out to Ken to respect other users, why should I not point out the same to you??

kevchard
08-12-06, 09:19 PM
Why is it double standards, I have pointed out to Ken to respect other users, why should I not point out the same to you??
I think Chris was refering to the round transmission tunnels (in one post it is a DMS, another post said not DMS)

robert
08-12-06, 09:20 PM
I think Chris was refering to the round transmission tunnels (in one post it is a DMS, another post said not DMS)

And he has made his point on that topic, and doesn't need to press the point.

kevchard
08-12-06, 09:22 PM
The trans tunnel is what seems to differentiate the vipers from each other. I would love a definitive answer :).

Miket
08-12-06, 09:36 PM
The trans tunnel is what seems to differentiate the vipers from each other. I would love a definitive answer :).

Kev

You own a Cobra, just be happy, there's loads of folks viewing this Forum who would be more than happy just to own any Cobra replica. ;) :thumb:

kevchard
08-12-06, 09:39 PM
Kev

You own a Cobra, just be happy, there's loads of folks viewing this Forum who would be more than happy just to own any Cobra replica. ;) :thumb:
Hi Mike
I actually own a pile of fibreglass sandings and a lumpy body (car body) :( . One day i am sure it will be a completed beast :thumb: .

robert
08-12-06, 09:39 PM
Kev

You own a Cobra, just be happy, there's loads of folks viewing this Forum who would be more than happy just to own any Cobra replica.

Sigh, big sigh, I only own a pile of bits, mainly broken bits... :(:(

All together now... Ahhhhhhhhhhh:rotfl:

wilf
08-12-06, 09:48 PM
It's the syllable that comes before that you need to think about.:D

Miket
08-12-06, 09:52 PM
Sigh, big sigh, I only own a pile of bits, mainly broken bits... :(

All together now... Ahhhhhhhhhhh

Sorry Rob, no innuendo intended. :( :rolleyes: :thumb:

Purple AK
08-12-06, 09:57 PM
Why is it double standards, I have pointed out to Ken to respect other users, why should I not point out the same to you?? With the Utmost of Respect. Ken said one thing to one user. And the total opposite to another!! That to me is Double Standards :rolleyes:

Kenco
08-12-06, 10:28 PM
History lesson Pt2 I designed the original Viper 4 Cortina based Car in early 89. It had squared off trans tunnel. DMS copied it in 1990. They bought one of my kits from a local buyer of one Viper 4. For some reason they did not get the floor with it, so had to make a new mould and made it with rounded transtunnel. In 1992 DMS sold their biusiness to a guy called Tony. A very nice bloke which makes a change in this World I now live in! Because he was nice we teamed up and for 18 months he sold his Viper 4 which by now had also a variant developed by DMS namely a Sierra back end with the Cortina front end. Still with same transtunnel. Tony having more sense than me decided he thought the whole Cobra scene stank to high heaven, with too many horrible customers and even more problems from one simply awful Cobra competitor. he did a good job of pursuading me to buy him out. Which I did. So I ended up with the Sierra based kit, and the Cortina based Viper4 which I had stopped making in 1990. I decided not to make anymore complete Cortina kits but carried on with the Sierra/Cortina one until 1998 when I upgraded it to Sierra MK 2 with a Sierra front end and I did away with the fibreglass floor and reverted to a metal floor and bulkheads. Tony now makes a real good living in the building trade and unlike some peopel on this Forum who seem to think I made a fortune and have retired on it, I retired but not on any money I made on Cobras. I since 1991 only ever made wages and very low ones at that. So you know who you are..get off your high horse. What profits I could have made during those years was stole off me by you know who a person who has thieved off my back and I/P all these years. You all seem to think you have legitimate grouses, if you had my grouses you'd have something to complain about.
Hope that the people with kits they may wonder about, can now realise what they have and realise why I, when posting a quick reply got confused myself over convoluted events, some which happened some years back. Have a Happy Christmas all of you and I hope Father Christmas brings you all a good dose of humility, good manners and kindnesss towards your fellow men. Amen!

robert
08-12-06, 10:31 PM
Sorry Rob, no innuendo intended. :( :rolleyes: :thumb:

No innuendo taken, my response was tongue in cheek and a rolling on the floor laughing smiley:thumb:

robert
08-12-06, 10:32 PM
With the Utmost of Respect. Ken said one thing to one user. And the total opposite to another!! That to me is Double Standards :rolleyes:

Apologies, I thought your double standards was targetted differently.

robert
08-12-06, 10:35 PM
I hope Father Christmas brings you all a good dose of humility, good manners and kindnesss towards your fellow men. Amen!

Bite tongue, bite tongue.......

Purple AK
08-12-06, 10:37 PM
Apologies, I thought your double standards was targetted differently.
Accepted ;) Confusion-Reigns.co.uk :D :thumb:

Purple AK
08-12-06, 10:47 PM
Apologies, I thought your double standards was targetted differently.
Had It been, It would have said so ;) :thumb: :D Believe Me :thumb:

Iain
09-12-06, 08:38 AM
So I guess Ken has no answers for me then... :(

It would appear that when people show evidence of problems with Vipers along with parts/accessories that were purchased with the kit that are totally useless he hasn't consulted with the book of bull**it for answers! :boohoo:

Go away old man and leave us alone...

osgood
09-12-06, 12:47 PM
Yes, thats not fair, Osgood and myself were given red cards,get it sorted,pronto. heehee
I must say this site has got very interesting recently,what with all the political arguing with Den and his mate from Which Kit(even having their own thread) and now ill be blown Mr Crook comes out of the woodwork i don't suppose you are paying theses guys are you Robert?!

Hello Bruv, nice to hear from you how many times a week are you attending the Mosc in Exeter these days? We are having a new one built here right on the A40 west bound that now makes 3 in total. We have knocked down 6 perfectly good houses to accommodate it & if attendance exceeds expectations we could bob up and down on our mats in the middle of the A40 effectively blocking of the town.

Mmmm, my comments on the Viper, was not going to comment re the flack that was appearing but changed my mind. Well I think there best expressed in a little story I did for Ak-Rich on his web site. I tried to be as factual as I could taking Ken's own info and some old articles in magazines etc.
http://allthingscobra.tripod.com/viper_story.html

Osgood :)

rich
09-12-06, 01:18 PM
Well I think there best expressed in a little story I did for Ak-Rich on his web site.
Happy Birthday Os, you really need to be around more, i changed my name months ago :thumb:

osgood
09-12-06, 01:34 PM
Happy Birthday Os, you really need to be around more, i changed my name months ago :thumb:

Rich I'll do my best :thumb: :thumb: :) Osgood.

COBRA KEV01
09-12-06, 01:49 PM
[quote:847f44b574="osgood;172890"]Hello Bruv, nice to hear from you how many times a week are you attending the Mosc in Exeter these days? We are having a new one built here right on the A40 west bound that now makes 3 in total. We have knocked down 6 perfectly good houses to accommodate it & if attendance exceeds expectations we could bob up and down on our mats in the middle of the A40 effectively blocking of the town.
on the Viper, was not




Hi Bruv,i trust that your birthday went down a treat.
I am going to Exeter about two or three times a week these days ,when work lets me, we have a nice green on the seafront down here,its a lovely place where people enjoy the sun and relax and generally have fun.
I am going to write to my local authority and claim victimisation in the hope that a mosque could be built on the seafront,it would have the added ingredient of attracting our Muslim brothers and sisters who in turn would revitalise our tourist industry with a much needed cash injection.

kevchard
09-12-06, 02:08 PM
Thanks Ken
At least we know what to register ours as now :) .
Ours is a DMS Venom Viper IV, bit of an a##e writing that on my mileage expenses sheet every month :( .
Thankyou for ther history lesson, it is know to know how different models evolve.
Cheers
Kevin

hfbradley01
09-12-06, 02:10 PM
So I guess Ken has no answers for me then... :(

It would appear that when people show evidence of problems with Vipers along with parts/accessories that were purchased with the kit that are totally useless he hasn't consulted with the book of bull**it for answers! :boohoo:

Go away old man and leave us alone...

Hi Iain, having fun I see.

This thread has had me in stitches, having spent the last 15 months sorting my Viper out along side Iain so I know how much of a pig it's been. The few faults Iain has mentioned are the tip of the ice berg and I don't intend to waste time adding any more. My car is a Cadini Viper bought from Stan AKA ChesterAK as a rolling chassis and I know Stan had to alter the suspension brackets to get the correct ride height so this just backs up what Iain has been saying.

I haven't heard one word of explanation from Ken about any of the faults Iain has mentioned and to be honest I'd be very surprised if anyone could justify the faults associated with this kit. I'm hoping the end product will look good but it will be because i've (with a lot of help from my friends) attacked each problem, and there are many, and improved the design.

Ken......you've done absolutely nothing to change anyone's opinion of your product and to be honest your just wasting your time on this forum.

To all the Viper builders, this kit can, with a lot of redesign, be made to look like a very respectable cobra replica, so don't give up and we'll all meet up some time and have a laugh over our build stories.

Cheers

Graham B
09-12-06, 09:36 PM
I've just re-joined the forum after being away from kit cars for a while. The first kit I built, when I was 19 with no machanical experiance at all, was a Classic Replicas Viper 4 Sierra based Cobra. I had no real problems with the build and the car turned out stunning! I don't know what some of you are talking about! Yes, I agree the body wasn't the best, but it was nothing a bit of sanding & filler didn't sort out. If I as a complete novice could build one, then I pitty you who can't!

Purple AK
09-12-06, 09:51 PM
I've just re-joined the forum after being away from kit cars for a while. The first kit I built, when I was 19 with no machanical experiance at all, was a Classic Replicas Viper 4 Sierra based Cobra. I had no real problems with the build and the car turned out stunning! I don't know what some of you are talking about! Yes, I agree the body wasn't the best, but it was nothing a bit of sanding & filler didn't sort out. If I as a complete novice could build one, then I pitty you who can't!
Moulds, Standards, Enthusiasm AND Memories. All deteriorate over time :rolleyes: AND Please don't start the Insults off again Eh ;)

rich
09-12-06, 09:53 PM
The first kit I built, when I was 19 with no machanical experiance at all, was a Classic Replicas Viper 4 Sierra based Cobra. I had no real problems with the build and the car turned out stunning! I don't know what some of you are talking about! Yes, If I as a complete novice could build one, then I pitty you who can't!

Before you start pitting too many folk, would you like to tell everyone who you used to work for? :rolleyes:

Purple AK
09-12-06, 09:55 PM
Before you start pitting too many folk, would you like to tell everyone who you used to work for? :rolleyes:
Is there a Prize???? :rolleyes:

rich
09-12-06, 09:58 PM
Is there a Prize???? :rolleyes:


Its for fun only, so don't phone in...:rotfl:

While were waiting for Graham to own up, i'll just say you wont be surprised by his defensiveness of the viper ;)

Purple AK
09-12-06, 10:00 PM
Its for fun only, so don't phone in...:rotfl:

While were waiting for Graham to own up, i'll just say you wont be surprised by his defensiveness of the viper ;)
Ok. So It won't be a SurPRIZE then :rolleyes: :rotfl:

Purple AK
09-12-06, 10:06 PM
Its for fun only, so don't phone in...:rotfl:

While were waiting for Graham to own up,
Off to bed for me then if the wait for the truth is gonna be as long as last night!

osgood
10-12-06, 07:08 AM
Thanks Ken
At least we know what to register ours as now :) .
Ours is a DMS Venom Viper IV, bit of an a##e writing that on my mileage expenses sheet every month :( .
Thankyou for ther history lesson, it is know to know how different models evolve.
Cheers
Kevin

Kev I think you can drop the Viper bit it was just called a DMS Venom Osgood :thumb:

osgood
10-12-06, 07:24 AM
Hi Iain, having fun I see.

This thread has had me in stitches, having spent the last 15 months sorting my Viper out along side Iain so I know how much of a pig it's been. The few faults Iain has mentioned are the tip of the ice berg and I don't intend to waste time adding any more. My car is a Cadini Viper bought from Stan AKA ChesterAK as a rolling chassis and I know Stan had to alter the suspension brackets to get the correct ride height so this just backs up what Iain has been saying.

I haven't heard one word of explanation from Ken about any of the faults Iain has mentioned and to be honest I'd be very surprised if anyone could justify the faults associated with this kit. I'm hoping the end product will look good but it will be because i've (with a lot of help from my friends) attacked each problem, and there are many, and improved the design.

Ken......you've done absolutely nothing to change anyone's opinion of your product and to be honest your just wasting your time on this forum.

To all the Viper builders, this kit can, with a lot of redesign, be made to look like a very respectable cobra replica, so don't give up and we'll all meet up some time and have a laugh over our build stories.

Cheers

Howard hows it going? Your car is a Cadini Viper"
Mmmmm I dont think so, Cadini never built one, as confirmed by Ken in his opening history lesson, only ever finished one angry customers car off as I understand it, also Stan had his Viper a long time before Cadini came on the scene. If I'm wrong here of course I stand corrected.

Osgood ;) :thumb:

Iain
10-12-06, 08:46 AM
Cadini never built one, as confirmed by Ken in his opening history lesson, only ever finished one angry customers car off as I understand it

But Ken never had any angry or unsatisifed customers... :rolleyes:


Hi Eric, got your note thanks... :thumb:

osgood
10-12-06, 09:06 AM
But Ken never had any angry or unsatisifed customers... :rolleyes:


Hi Eric, got your note thanks... :thumb:

:D MMmmmm okay Iain I'll take your word for that mate ;) Xmas card on it way Iain Eric.

kevchard
10-12-06, 09:20 AM
See post
http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11294

He says he may be aware or 'even built your car'. so much for machanical (should be spelt mechanical FFR), so what makes you a novice builder?

Graham B
10-12-06, 10:25 AM
Sorry it took so long to reply but I do have a life, & don't spend all my time sat in front of a computer! The car I had featured in Which Kit? was built before I worked for Ken. It was the first car I had ever worked on let alone built from scratch. I built 4 or 5 cars while I worked at Classic Replicas and all turned out fine with no complaints from any of our customers, so why is it that we could build Vipers to a good standard with no problems but you lot can't? I've built other kit cars & had a lot more problems with them than I ever had with a Viper, but I never whinged & wined like an old woman, I just got on with it, sorted the problems out & finished the cars! I'm not saying any of this because of any loyalty to Ken, I'm just fed up with all this abuse that's directed towards him. Don't expect a reply to any more of your sniping anytime soon as I'll be off doing something more interesting than reading a load of s**t written by a bunch of incompetent t**ts who'd have trouble putting a Caterham together, let alone a Cobra replica!

Iain
10-12-06, 10:45 AM
Sorry it took so long to reply but I do have a life, & don't spend all my time sat in front of a computer! The car I had featured in Which Kit? was built before I worked for Ken. It was the first car I had ever worked on let alone built from scratch. I built 4 or 5 cars while I worked at Classic Replicas and all turned out fine with no complaints from any of our customers, so why is it that we could build Vipers to a good standard with no problems but you lot can't? I've built other kit cars & had a lot more problems with them than I ever had with a Viper, but I never whinged & wined like an old woman, I just got on with it, sorted the problems out & finished the cars! I'm not saying any of this because of any loyalty to Ken, I'm just fed up with all this abuse that's directed towards him. Don't expect a reply to any more of your sniping anytime soon as I'll be off doing something more interesting than reading a load of s**t written by a bunch of incompetent t**ts who'd have trouble putting a Caterham together, let alone a Cobra replica!

Graham,

I see that you have not offered any explanations as to the problems raised with the kits, even when given clear evidence... :rolleyes:
Your attitude is so very much like Kens it's uncanny... The insults come flying out instead of good honest chat. Why is it that people are far happier just cursing and swearing at other people rather than explaining the related issues. hmmm...

I expect no more of a reply from you than I do fron Ken... basically because you have no answers! :boohoo:

I say the same thing to you as I said to Ken... Go away Troll and leave us in peace! :D

Graham B
10-12-06, 10:58 AM
No explanations, because it's mostly b****k's. The body was crap, get over it and use some f**king elbow grease, we had trouble getting decent laminaters because all the good ones were employed by the local boat builders. I personaly never had the problems with the chassis that you mention, so how can I give an explanation? The cars always had the correct ride height, setting them so low during the build up is a big mistake because once full of fuel, luggage, passengers, and after it's been driven for a few miles, the suspension settles quite a bit, leaving the car too low for all the bloody speed humps we have around these days.

Iain
10-12-06, 11:09 AM
No explanations, because it's mostly b****k's. The body was crap, get over it and use some f**king elbow grease

I rest my case... Always cursing/swearing....


we had trouble getting decent laminaters because all the good ones were employed by the local boat builders

You couldn't find any decent laminators so you were quite happy using crap ones then... Nice move on Classic Replicas part! :thumb:


The cars always had the correct ride height, setting them so low during the build up is a big mistake

The Classic Replicas "Super" Build manual actually states that the suspension SHOULD be set to it's lowest setting during build up. You are not advised to attempt to adjust the ride hieght. Would you like me to scan that page of the manual... I'm not short of toilet paper yet!

Dutch Paul
10-12-06, 11:18 AM
Hmm - I hope the padlock doesn`t come until after I`ve finished me popcorn :eek: :rolleyes:

Miket
10-12-06, 11:23 AM
Don't expect a reply to any more of your sniping anytime soon as I'll be off doing something more interesting than reading a load of s**t written by a bunch of incompetent t**ts who'd have trouble putting a Caterham together, let alone a Cobra replica!

Another little white lie. :( :(

Graham B
10-12-06, 11:30 AM
Sorry to offend you! We changed laminaters regularly, the body's weren't all as bad as some. Just use common sense with the suspension, they do ride hard, they handle better like that.

robert
10-12-06, 11:49 AM
they do ride hard, they handle better like that.

Now that is funny.

Suspension should not be set to hard unless you can determine the road surface on which a vehicle is travelling, ie a race track as race tracks are generally smooth with good surfaces.

Our roads are not smooth and deterministic, therefore you need suspension travel to stop your teeth and eyeballs falling out, also compliant suspension will allow better handling on the road otherwise there is a risk of reduced contact patch as a vehicle bounces over ruts and potholes etc.

Just a thought......

And before anyone jumps on this, its not a dig at anyone, it is a suspension observation.

Graham B
10-12-06, 12:53 PM
Ok, for hard read firm.

hfbradley01
10-12-06, 01:41 PM
Howard hows it going? Your car is a Cadini Viper"
Mmmmm I dont think so, Cadini never built one, as confirmed by Ken in his opening history lesson, only ever finished one angry customers car off as I understand it, also Stan had his Viper a long time before Cadini came on the scene. If I'm wrong here of course I stand corrected.

Osgood ;) :thumb:

Hi Eric, good to chat to you again.

I can only go by the chassis plate I have which clearly states "Cadini Viper Cobra", along with a serial number.

It also quotes www.cobrakitcars.co.uk and www.cadini.co.uk.

Cheers

hfbradley01
10-12-06, 02:00 PM
Just to put the record straight....a photo of the serial number plate, I also have the original invoice and the company name at the top is Cadini Motorsport/Classic Replicas (Manufacturers of the Viper Cobra).

Cheers

Kenco
10-12-06, 02:13 PM
To hf Bradley01. Cadini never built a Viper, but sold 2 or 3 kits which were left overs from my customers before I sold to them. That is as I know it but they could have of course built one after they offloaded to Percival.

hfbradley01
10-12-06, 02:26 PM
To hf Bradley01. Cadini never built a Viper, but sold 2 or 3 kits which were left overs from my customers before I sold to them. That is as I know it but they could have of course built one after they offloaded to Percival.

Hi Ken, I don't doubt you on this point. It might well have been one of your left overs, photo attached.

Cheers

wilf
10-12-06, 03:33 PM
Amazing how life can make you chuckle, isn't it?

I never thought I would see a totally new definition for an ar$ehole, and then along comes Graham B...................

I should be rather glad if he keeps to his promise to never come back.

Graham B
10-12-06, 04:04 PM
I'm still a f*****g twat!

Iain
10-12-06, 04:19 PM
Graham,

Rod for own back springs to mind.... and that is definately not the kind of language to be using here me thinks...

dave
10-12-06, 04:32 PM
I'm still here you f*cking tw*t!

:eek: :eek: :eek:
Make the most of Graham everyone, while he is still allowed to post.:boohoo:

Graham B
10-12-06, 04:34 PM
Don't worry I won't be back!

Iain
10-12-06, 04:55 PM
Don't worry I won't be back!

You said that last time...

Do you promise? :D

hfbradley01
10-12-06, 04:59 PM
You said that last time...

Do you promise? :D


Hi Iain

Haven't touched the car this week with the weather being so bad. Taking a days holiday tomorrow so I'm hoping to do a bit then.

Cheers

Iain
10-12-06, 05:04 PM
Hi Howard,

Been sorting out the dreaded X-Mas shopping... Will be out there next weekend, maybe a night in the week too. Will give you a bell at the weekend.

Cheers...

Purple AK
10-12-06, 05:12 PM
Amazing how life can make you chuckle, isn't it?

I never thought I would see a totally new definition for an ar$ehole, and then along comes Graham B...................

I should be rather glad if he keeps to his promise to never come back.
They're like buses Wilf :mad:

osgood
10-12-06, 05:57 PM
Amazing how life can make you chuckle, isn't it?

I never thought I would see a totally new definition for an ar$ehole, and then along comes Graham B...................

I should be rather glad if he keeps to his promise to never come back.

Wilf are you still taking the pill's? Osgood :)

Dek
10-12-06, 06:13 PM
I have a Cobretti Viper which I bought 75% complete and am finishing so I speak as an owner of an 'illegal' version. I cannot comment of the trials that were encountered prior to my purchase but what I bought was an extremely strong chassis and body fitted with Jaguar running gear and a 350 Chevy well put together by someone who was not an engineer. I have owned a number of fibreglass cars ranging from Marcos to Corvettes and the quality of the body is on a par with the mass produced Corvette and much better than the Marcos. I have just had it sprayed and the sprayer commented that Lamborghinis were more of a kit car! Having looked at the chassis weld quality of a Lambo he was currently spraying I could see what he meant! It wouldn't have looked amiss on a tractor though! It seems to me this model has had a very chequered history with much mud slinging along the way to detract from it. It may be the 'illegal' version was a better one!
Dek

rich
10-12-06, 06:25 PM
I'm still here you..



I can see why you don't frequent on-line forums much, now :eek:

Sorry Troll, but if you wanted to invoke a childish retaliation, then i think you picked the wrong person.

Hope you keep your promise this time http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/wanker.gif

wilf
10-12-06, 06:37 PM
Hi Eric,

I suspect that it is not I in need of medication.............maybe a certain Graham B could do with some happy pills. (Wonder what the B stands for? I stand ready with some suggestions should anyone elses's imagination not prove ready to the task).

Still, seeing someone make a total fool of themselves on a public forum is always good sport. :rolleyes:

robert
10-12-06, 06:43 PM
I'm still a f*****g twat!

Sorted. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Iain
10-12-06, 06:46 PM
A discreet alteration to the original Rob but much more meaningful. :D

Thanks... :thumb:

Purple AK
10-12-06, 07:36 PM
Sorry it took so long to reply but I do have a life, & don't spend all my time sat in front of a computer! The car I had featured in Which Kit? was built before I worked for Ken. It was the first car I had ever worked on let alone built from scratch. I built 4 or 5 cars while I worked at Classic Replicas and all turned out fine with no complaints from any of our customers, so why is it that we could build Vipers to a good standard with no problems but you lot can't? I've built other kit cars & had a lot more problems with them than I ever had with a Viper, but I never whinged & wined like an old woman, I just got on with it, sorted the problems out & finished the cars! I'm not saying any of this because of any loyalty to Ken, I'm just fed up with all this abuse that's directed towards him. Don't expect a reply to any more of your sniping anytime soon as I'll be off doing something more interesting than reading a load of s**t written by a bunch of incompetent t**ts who'd have trouble putting a Caterham together, let alone a Cobra replica!

As far as I'm aware Caterhams are only available as "Factory Built" :rolleyes:

robert
10-12-06, 07:44 PM
As far as I'm aware Caterhams are only available as "Factory Built" :rolleyes:

http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/startkits.htm

Purple AK
10-12-06, 07:51 PM
http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/startkits.htm

:o There you go! I was wrong :o Sorry Graham ;)

Dek
10-12-06, 08:08 PM
Can we all stick to the point of the original post and leave personal differences and Caterhams out of it? There are probably Cobra enthusiasts out there considering buying or are building a Viper who would welcome some serious debate! As always things are going off at a tangent. The important point to remember is we are all Cobra enthusiasts and not to try to score points depending on which kit we own/who we would like to settle a score with.
Dek.

steamyrotter
10-12-06, 09:02 PM
As a lot of you know I am "Building" a viper.
And as the signature states it's not all an easy job.

HOWEVER. I, and someone will correct me if I am wrong, have never winged or whined about the difficiulties therein but as with everything I turn my hand to embrace it as a challenge.
I have asked the odd silly question here for confirmation of my thoughts and to tap into the depth of knowledge available, for which i thank you all.

I also do not consider myself to be in the S--t & T--t genre that the distant statement implies.

I have always handled my posts within the forum rules and have been polite, curteous and respectfull to all. Those that have met me (and yes a few have) will know what i am like. That is my way and how i was bought up.


However, as my final post on this matter in this session, That grahams a tosser.

wilf
10-12-06, 09:21 PM
I find it interesting that not once, to my recollection, has anyone here ever said anything derogatory about Vipers other than that they are more difficult to build than some other kits. And that latter statement is just fact.

The only sh*t that has flown has been from those who made money from selling "kits" that have given many folks at least pause for thought in trying to complete them. They have come into this forum, populated as it is by many many people with experience of completing their own cars, and have shown complete arrogant disrespect for members, and their abilities.

As I said in another thread, the kitcar industry is the better for their having left it. Other manufacturers have entered who realise that a little attention on their part to quality and ease of assembly of their products actually improves things, makes their businesses more profitable, and grows the market overall.

The real focus of this place, (apart from some light relief occasionally), which is to be a place to exchange information to help people end up with safe and great looking cars they can be proud of, is what we should return to. ( and usually do).

Funny how that only becomes clouded when some folks with axes to grind appear, isn't it?

chesterak
11-12-06, 11:09 AM
Well said Wilf, very true.

Without trying to emulate another series of posts on another Cobra kit (DTvsVW), I am another part-time Viper builder.

Ken Cook/Weber delivered my kit in person - or at least most of it as some fibreglass parts were missing, supplied a long time later, that were dimensionally inaccurate by inches.
As he was in such a rush to get going- and be paid - it wasn't until after he had gone that I had a good look over the parts. If I hade seen this before, I most certainly would not have bought such a poorly finished kit of parts. But I got on with it.
Once I had a driving rolling chassis, young Mr Brooks (of DB Replicas fame) agreed to help me with suspension set up. No details in the "manual", so we set it up as a Dax. (Remember by this time I had cut out and completely refitted the rear suspension top mounting points) The suspension lined up very well with minimal shimming. So thoes who say no jigs were used in chassis construction, I would find it difficult to get this level of accuracy without some form of jig.

The many problems associated with this particular kit have been well documented thoughout this series so I'm not going over that again - although the prat who says "don't moan, just get on with it", has in my view missed the whole point.

Anyway, my concern with CR/Mr. Cook/Weber was one of attitude.
As a first time kit builder I had some, possibly, daft questions. Like - can you please tell me the design for, and the correct position, for engine mountings? Answer - Whatever/wherever it's best for the engine you are using. Given that I'd specified a kit for a RV8 engine and box, this didn't help an awful lot. What was worse was the attitude of - why are you bothering me, you have got everything you need, including a "build manual". In the end, Mr Cook/Weber became very difficult to contact - so I stopped trying. I've put that "manual" in inverted commas as people who have seen this document will know why - it is virtually useless.

During the period of my build, I had enormous help and encouragement from Eric (Osgood), even to the extent of going down to visit him and Liz and a good look over his car.

I sold my Viper to Howard (HFBradley01) as my work planned on sending me to China (amongst other places!) so it would have sat for a year or more - it never happened so I started again with an AK.

Incidentally, when Cadini Motorsport took up the Viper, I found them extremely helpful. Howard has said my kit is a "Cadini", this may be because I had them supply a chassis plate, number and back-dated reciept so I could comply with SVA for age-related registration.

My two penneth'. I have great admiration for thoes who have completed this model kit. I still have a picture of "Contrary Mary" on my wall at work that is testement to Osgoods perseverence.:thumb:

hfbradley01
11-12-06, 05:14 PM
Hi stan

Everythings clear now, it was the chassis plate that threw me. I knew you had mentioned Ken Cook but I thought he had something to do with Cadini.

Now I know you bought the kit from Ken it all makes sense.

Cheers

hfbradley01
11-12-06, 05:22 PM
Hi stan

Everythings clear now, it was the chassis plate that threw me. I knew you had mentioned Ken Cook but I thought he had something to do with Cadini.

Now I know you bought the kit from Ken it all makes sense.

Cheers

My apologies to Cadini for wrongly thinking, and stating on this forum, that they had made the Viper I bought from Stan.

Cheers

osgood
11-12-06, 06:18 PM
Hello Stan, thanks for your kind words and support. I have tried to give advice to Viper owners all over the UK & the World even to date in the Netherlands. I am not too well up on the Cortina / Sierra / Granada based units but I try from info suplied by this site from various people that should know and pay half a crown to know!!

Let me just say, yourself and Wilf (cant believe I said that Wilf!!!!) have hit the nail on the head, no one has complained about the Viper once built with confidence just the difficulties surrounding the build & around it.

Could I say at this point Graham and I have met on two occations and he did not seem a bad guy. Ken although we did not hit big time to start built up eventually A good relationship, although he comes out of the same 80 grit bag as Filby, Tanner & Hawkridge, we did undertstand each other at the end of the day.

Now lets get on with other matters. The Company Viper was sold too Caddini with no jiggs or molds that I know from the horses mouth & very little money, just good will re the company name. Chassis can be made up on a bed as vehicles are porter-powerd out into shape re a smash so in short jiggs are not that important.

Where are the original jigs then, not the copies if any? Let me know. Now lets get on with another point. This rise of Ken & Graham from the grave onto the Cobra Club site has now raised the topic is Viper still alive; has one or both going to revitalized the name Viper?

My car took 2:5 years to build 5-6 days per week, 2,900 hours + at a cost of 24K I am still modifiying to improve!!! The car at this moment in time stands In well over 30K :) Osgood m:drive:

Kenco
11-12-06, 07:32 PM
Well Stan welcome to the pack of baying hounds all out for my blood. People never cease to amaze me, and your no exception. From my memory your purchase came close to the end of my ownership of the Viper business. I ertainly do not remember ever talking to you after you took the kit so what you say comes as a surpirse especially as from what I remember your are an engineer.?? You like many make a big deal out of nothing, like I was in a hurry to get away when delivering the kit. So i should think so after spending all day to get to you and having still to drive all the way back to the South Coast. What is up with you guys?
The manual has been praised by many over the years and was certaibly as good as any other and was constantly being upgraded each year. Some people are just either never satisfied or have an agenda to complain for the sake of it.
Then you make a point that I was difficult to get hold of, yes....I retired and went abraod for a while if that was OK by you.
Your comments about the rear suspension mounts are also totally wrong.
For the past five years at least of my business, the chassis was made, along with other Kitcar chassis I had amde, by a extremely good engineering company. They were all amde on JIGS!!!!! So why is it all of a sudden that you and others complain and bitch about the suspension, when I and others also building Vipers NEVER had any problems at all????
Of course immediately someone sticks up for what I say they too are the subject of being called an A******* etc etc, so anyone who disagrees with all you moaners, can expect vitriolic and histrionic wails verging on the paranoic. Had I remained in business you could all have got in touch with me about anything, but I somehow doubt any of you would ever have been satisfied with anything I may have done or said, if you had.
Hence why I have not replied to all these endless complaints. However I will in time reply to all of them collectively, when I am ready.
Cadini never made any attempt to make a Viper or to market it. So they were in no position to give advice on any ANY aspect of the build. They should if they got any ex customer of mine, contacting them, to ask them to contact me. I was in constant touch with them in order to give them help with building up the Viper business, so they knew where I was at all times. I never got contacted at all by any ex customer like you. Cadini never told me that they had been contacted by anyone, either. The business was sold to them with jigs and moulds, of course, and they were passed onto Percival when they sold the business. I am afraid its just more misinformation being dished out.

This contrary to another 'experts' statements

Kenco
11-12-06, 07:42 PM
Well Eric Rayner AKA Osgood. Maybe you would like to send me your email address so I can talk to you privately and correct all the mistakes you have made in your history of the Viper Story and a lot of the other misleading and untrue statements you have made about me and the Viper and the history of my businesses etc etc.

Iain
11-12-06, 07:51 PM
Your comments about the rear suspension mounts are also totally wrong.
For the past five years at least of my business, the chassis was made, along with other Kitcar chassis I had amde, by a extremely good engineering company. They were all amde on JIGS!!!!! So why is it all of a sudden that you and others complain and bitch about the suspension, when I and others also building Vipers NEVER had any problems at all????


Ken,

I posted evidence of the suspension problems four days ago. How long does it take to come up with either a valid explanation or some fabricated work of fiction? :confused:

Rather than always being on the backfoot trying to defend your honour, why not actually start answering the questions. I'm sure that if you give satisfactory/credible information you are sure to be given more respect than you are currently getting. :rolleyes:

dave
11-12-06, 07:56 PM
Hi Ken.
Nice of you to kick in the teeth the one person (Eric) who has taken so much flack from so many different people for supporting and in a way promoting your product.
I have had very little experience with your product but I am more inclined to believe the numerous people of this forum than some cranky old git who turns up out of the blue ranting and insulting the very same people who have put food on your table over the years.
You must be one first class c**t.

Purple AK
11-12-06, 08:18 PM
Ken. You Really do "Take the Biscuit" Osgood has been defending the marque like a bulldog since before I can remember! And yet now you are Flamming him!!!!!!!!!! FFS man. Get a Life. Then go "somewhere else" and enjoy it!!

rich
11-12-06, 08:25 PM
Ken, Time to grow up and take that chip off your shoulder!
I thought it would be a great opportunity for everyone, when you showed up on here...
... How wrong i was!

Your compete rebuttal of any defect in your product, even with overwhelming evidence from the people that are building it, leaves me in disbelief.
It doesn't surprise me one bit that you got very few complaints with the attitude you have, i mean whats the point in talking to a brick wall?

On behalf of the Forum I would like to take this opportunity to extend our admiration to all builders of the Viper, i think all on here know what a challenge it must be, you have our respect and sympathies.

Ken, feel free to slag me off as well now if you wish

Deck
11-12-06, 08:31 PM
Sorry to hear you say that Dave! Don't let them drag you down (to their level) as the saying goes.

Ken, while you're still here, can you tell me how high my rear wheel arches should be above the rear wheels please?

I have a Sierra estate rear suspension assembly that seems to be properly bolted onto the mountings. The shell is sitting on the upper seatbelt mountings and will go no lower and with my 17" halibrand replicas and toyo 245 45 r17s on there's 97mm (PS) and 95mm(DS) vertical distance from the top of the tyre to the centre of the wheel arches.

I didn't want to cut the springs as suggested in your manual so I forked out pounds and put a suspension lowering kit on (-45mm) and the clearance was great but the wheel camber was about 35 degrees in at the top. How can the sierra hubs be adjusted to straighten the wheels back up to normal?

Eagerly and gratefully awaiting your advice,
Declan

wilf
11-12-06, 08:58 PM
AHA!

A new book will be released shortly, it's title:

" Quickly building Vipers the easy way."

It's author - (well I think you know who that might be, but his initials are not far removed from JC, and that individual could apparently perform miracles as well.)

This book will be brought to you by the same publishers made famous by such illuminating titles as:

"Improving the lot of the common man in Zimbabwe" by R Mugabe

"My struggle for truth and honour in British politics" by Mr T Bliar

"Improving public services without increasing the tax burden on hard working familes" by Mr G Brown

and, perhaps most famously of all:

"Safe alternative and imaginative uses for ball joints" by Mr V Wrong.

Form an orderly queue at the doors of all good booksellers now!

Dek
11-12-06, 09:02 PM
Respect at last! You can keep the sympathies though.
Dek

Ken, Time to grow up and take that chip off your shoulder!
I thought it would be a great opportunity for everyone, when you showed up on here...
... How wrong i was!

Your compete rebuttal of any defect in your product, even with overwhelming evidence from the people that are building it, leaves me in disbelief.
It doesn't surprise me one bit that you got very few complaints with the attitude you have, i mean whats the point in talking to a brick wall?

On behalf of the Forum I would like to take this opportunity to extend our admiration to all builders of the Viper, i think all on here know what a challenge it must be, you have our respect and sympathies.

Ken, feel free to slag me off as well now if you wish

Iain
11-12-06, 09:06 PM
Wilf,

Put us down for a copy of that book will you! :rotfl:

Obviously I'm doing something wrong... :rolleyes:

Dutch Paul
11-12-06, 09:07 PM
Seeing as the other "warm" thread got locked I got some fresh popcorn in tonight :)

slogger
11-12-06, 09:26 PM
So now we have two manufacturers of Cob kits that have a total disregard for their customers. Rather than taking their comments constructively and improving the product, customer service and overall image, which in turn would result in an increase in unit sales, customer satisfaction and future growth, they would rather flush it all down the pan!

Great business plan me thinks!:rotfl: You Viper guys need an award. I'll never complain about a Dax part being a bitch to fit again. Hats off to you all!

dave
11-12-06, 09:26 PM
I did hear that VW and KC were suing one another over who owns the royalty rights to the book entitled "How to win friends and influence people"

slogger
11-12-06, 09:30 PM
I did hear that VW and KC were suing one another over who owns the royalty rights to the book entitled "How to win friends and influence people"

LOL Dave.:thumb:

Kenco
11-12-06, 10:42 PM
All you smart A****** who don't even own a Viper especially the AK/Dax mob can all go forth and multiply. Keep your long noses out of what doesn't concern you and go and cause childish mischeif on your own make forums.
As I said I will answer all the moaning minnies who couldn't glue an Airfix kit together in my own good time. Those who bought Vipers second hand,third hand, fourth hand etc....I don't owe you anything. So just get on with it. In fact I don't really owe any of you anything in law. I certainly do not owe anything to anyone who bought copies of the Viper.
Talking of copies why is it that the Viper got copied in the UK by at least three retards, who didnt have the brains to design and make their own Cobra and by at least six companies in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, if its such a **** kit?????
Declan if you will change the specs by fitting 17" wheels then just get on with it. Dont ask me for advice, as your not an ex customer of mine.

Miket
11-12-06, 10:48 PM
All you smart A****** who don't even own a Viper especially the AK/Dax mob can all go forth and multiply. Keep your long noses out of what doesn't concern you and go and cause childish mischeif on your own make forums.
As I said I will answer all the moaning minnies who couldn't glue an Airfix kit together in my own good time. Those who bought Vipers second hand,third hand, fourth hand etc....I don't owe you anything. So just get on with it. In fact I don't really owe any of you anything in law. I certainly do not owe anything to anyone who bought copies of the Viper.
Talking of copies why is it that the Viper got copied in the UK by at least three retards, who didnt have the brains to design and make their own Cobra and by at least six companies in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, if its such a **** kit?????
Declan if you will change the specs by fitting 17" wheels then just get on with it. Dont ask me for advice, as your not an ex customer of mine.

Surely Rob this has to be the last post from this pillock. :mad: :mad:

COBRA KEV01
11-12-06, 10:53 PM
Full of charm aint you Ken.

Iain
11-12-06, 10:53 PM
Surely Rob this has to be the last post from this pillock. :mad: :mad:

I agree (and I'm a Viper owner) :rolleyes:

Ken... you're an http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/images/faces/asshole.gif

chesterak
11-12-06, 11:02 PM
Hello Ken,
Nice to see you have your denial head on. As I'm a shy, retiring person, I will not respond in kind - your a lying tw*t. I contacted you on, I recon 8-10 occasions about how to go about assembling the kit. On most - not all - occasions you were very dismissive, bordering on rude. So you remember delivering the kit, being paid as Mr Weber, the fact that I'm an engineer etc but you don't ever remember me calling you! Come on! You can insult our capabilities but not our intelligence.
No wonder your out of business and, IMHO, very unlikely to be in this game ever again. What a Pillock.

gareth08
11-12-06, 11:18 PM
Well,

After reading this thread I don't think I'll ever contemplate buying a Viper of any description , although I wish all the guys building them the best of luck:thumb: It sounds like you'll need it:eek: although I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end.

As for the rest of the posts I can't believe that we now have 3 Cobra manufacturers (current or otherwise) on the forum openly slagging off other kit's , each other and worst of all their customers.

If I was not a owner/builder and I was looking on this site for information about buying or building and came across some of this **** I would probably go elsewhere.

To be honest I think that these lot make this site look like a shower of **** and does not represent the vast knowledge that is on here and the help that is available from the members.

We all know that EVERY kit has faults some worse than others but they can all be overcome eventually but some of the comments made to customers is disgraceful to say the least, so to those concerned either come up with the truth or F*** off somewhere else and let the rest get on with thier builds.:thumb:

chesterak
11-12-06, 11:23 PM
Hi Ken,
I've just read in full one of you posts, and I quote

"Talking of copies why is it that the Viper got copied in the UK by at least three retards, who didnt have the brains to design and make their own Cobra and by at least six companies in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, if its such a **** kit?????"

Retards? Retards? You have the audacity to call people this?

I know your an old man, as I am, but after the way you have treated people who have paid you hard-earned money, I would certainly like to meet you down a dark alley.....maybe ther will be a queue. You are a disgrace.

wilf
12-12-06, 07:45 AM
KC - how you ever managed to stay in business even for as long as you did is beyond me. You obviously have as much contempt for your customers as we now do for you. And it is no great shock that the other person to spring to your defence here exhibited a similar approach. Birds of a feather...........

As others have said, the only sympathy we have is for the people left trying to construct a decent car from your incredibly tawdry supplies. It must have been like buying a car from a pikey.
Amazingly, some of them succeed, which says a lot for human perserverance.

Rob - I think we now have an ample insight into the mind of this gentleman, I think we should allow him to sink further into his obvious senility without bothering us further...............

robert
12-12-06, 08:42 AM
My word, what a lovely name he is.

Thread closed methinks.