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Ian 46
11-09-07, 07:58 PM
I would like to get my Crendon 427SC looking as authentic as possible and to that end I want to fit the 'square' Hillman type rear light units which I understand were original fittings on the 427 SC.

I have seen a Hawk 289 and other Crendons with this style of lights but I am not sure if they were fitted before or after the SVA test.

The reason for the question is, I want to know if I can fit them now during the build up and get the body sprayed or will I have to put the round rear lights on, get the car tested, then fit the square lights and spray the body at the end of the build.

If fitted now I realise I will have to rig up some sort of brackets etc for the indicator lights to get through the SVA and that in itself may prohibit the car passing.

How have other people managed?

Ian

rich
11-09-07, 08:08 PM
Hi Ian, you will have to fit them after SVA because the lights will fail the radius test, and unless you get the units adapted you will still need a separate indicator anyway as the L542 [Hillman] lights only have stop/side and a reflector.

HTH

KevinW
11-09-07, 08:14 PM
I saw an article on this site (I think) where a guy had carefully cut out the middle and added an orange plastic disc so that the flasher flashed orange, but wont solve the radius problem.

If you can bear it (wince) your cheapest solution is to fit BL mini indicators and stop lights for sva. the holes can probably be covered by the Imp lenses.
Apologies in advance if thats an insult for a crendon build.

Kevin

Clive
11-09-07, 09:12 PM
Hi Ian
Rich is correct in saying the L542 will fail the SVA on radius.
What I did for my SVA was to fit the round stop/tail light and the round reflector below and the indicator lower down where it still is.
By fitting the rear light and reflector close to each other the mounting holes are well within the area you need to remove for the L542 so no filling required.

Purple AK
11-09-07, 09:32 PM
Ian.
Beg, Borrow or Steal some L488 or L594 lights for the SVA along with stickon reflectors Then as Kev said replace then after. The L542's do cover the holes if your carefull. Have a word with GWAK (Gary) on the other site, As he imports them and does a nifty LED conversion to stop/tail and indicator in the same unit for not much money ;)

KevinW
11-09-07, 09:43 PM
Ian.
Beg, Borrow or Steal some L488 or L594 lights for the SVA along with stickon reflectors Then as Kev said replace then after. The L542's do cover the holes if your carefull. Have a word with GWAK (Gary) on the other site, As he imports them and does a nifty LED conversion to stop/tail and indicator in the same unit for not much money ;)

I'll have spare mini indicators after 10th oct! (sva re-test). cant help with the stop lights.

Kev

Ian 46
11-09-07, 09:51 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Chris (Purple AK) as I am new to all this forum stuff, I don't know who Gary is or what the other site means. Please clarify.

I knew the whole idea was going to be complicated, so I am leaning towards fitting the square rear lights after the SVA test and carrying out any body shaping/re-profiling spraying at that stage.

Ian

Purple AK
11-09-07, 10:06 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Chris (Purple AK) as I am new to all this forum stuff, I don't know who Gary is or what the other site means. Please clarify.

I knew the whole idea was going to be complicated, so I am leaning towards fitting the square rear lights after the SVA test and carrying out any body shaping/re-profiling spraying at that stage.

Ian
Sorry Ian.
Gary (user name GWAK) is the guy you need to talk to ;)

Neil O
12-09-07, 10:28 AM
The Hillman lights definitely cover the holes on a Crendon.
Just fit the SVA round ones and change them later as a winter job.:D

John will have already cut the tail light holes in the body, so all you will need to do is trim the centre part out when you change them. This shouldn't affect the painting of the car, either before or after you change them.:D

dingocooke
12-09-07, 10:40 AM
hmmm..interesting thread (for me) this one, as my Crendon (chassis 29 which is the 'new' body shape) has the later Austin Healey type lights which John Kerr drills the holes for, and I have a pair of the Hillman lights from FinishLine (which I also prefer); however, I removed the Healey lights, and offered up the Hillman ones, and whilst you can get them to cover the holes, there is a noticeble flat area of the body moulding at the rear lights, which is covered by the Healey lights, but not covered by the Hilman ones, so this would need to be addressed before paint to get the desired effect later.
Id be very tempted in your case Ian, to fit the Hilman lights now (to make the holes blend the body to the lights shape etc) then take them off, and make some adaptor plates or whatever to put SVA compliant lights on for the test.
Unfortunately if you leave it until after paint (as my car) its not a quick change (well not for me, so have I missed something, or am I being too picky?)

Ian 46
12-09-07, 12:40 PM
Steve, my shell arrived already drilled for the two round rear lights which have a bigger footprint on the body than the Hillman ones I would like to fit.

I can see already from the bare shell that there will definitely be a 'flat' area around the square lights when I come to swap them over which is probably going to look odd on the finished painted car.

If I reprofile the area now and spray the car as I would like, the larger round light bases are going to stick out above the curves of the rear wings at that point, which will probably mean a certain fail at SVA.

I will fit the Hillman lights but I am coming to the conclusion that I will build the car first, SVA it in the gel coat then partly dismantle for the painting.

dingocooke
12-09-07, 12:47 PM
yes that would make sense, or you could fit the the smaller round lights (or even different ones altogether) to an adaptor plate then swap post sva, but fitting after sva/before paint makes th emost sense to me!

Bigblock
12-09-07, 04:54 PM
You did want to do that did you? you wanted to do this, see pic.
I did the article earlier on converting the top part of the Lucas light to an indicator.
Just have a steady hand and nerve and cut the reflector part of the £95 rear light out and graft on and resin into place a Lucas amber lens. I have even managed to get the raised Lucas part of the amber lens to show and stand out. Flat and polish the final finish, just like a paint job and hey presto! an amber and red Lucas L542 lens. Make up a bracket to support the new indicator lamp holder.

MOT bloke could not believe they were made up and still insisted that I bought them and wouldn’t tell him where from.
A pair of small round reflectors on spring clips, clipped onto the rear nudge bar for the MOT passed. And they look good.

If you want to come and have a look give me a pm or call.
It does take a few hours to do but is so worth the effort.

dingocooke
12-09-07, 05:03 PM
They look really nice big block, mind you should have gone to Finish line to buy them, £95 jeez!!
Mine were $64 a pair from finishline (£32) even allowing for postage they weren't £40 total and delivered in 5 working days; quality just as good as the SVC ones.

Bigblock
12-09-07, 05:36 PM
They did come from Paula @ Finishline, I believe the ones sold over here by Europexpensive are £95 or something like that.
Go on, be brave, be very brave, you know you want a pair!

dingocooke
12-09-07, 05:45 PM
I have a pair..from Enzo at Finishline LOL

Ian 46
12-09-07, 07:40 PM
Big Block the lights in the photos look fantastic. I had heard that someone had done this little conversion but not seen an example until now.

I am also into Morris Minors for my sins, and around the early sixties they had single red tail lights that performed several roles. The rear lights and brake lights obviously, but they also flashed red as the turn indicators.

I was thinking of using the Hillman light fitting in the same way, obviously fitted after the SVA.

However with modern day traffic the way it is and the fact that many motorists probably won't have seen flashing red indicators before, resulting in possible confusion, your solution is much more appealing.

If there are previous postings on the topic I will search them out.

Bigblock
12-09-07, 08:09 PM
Ian
I thought about the USA red flashing indicators, however the boys in blue would frown on this I would have thought, even more so than my rear reflectors falling off officer.

BBF whch is yours then? this is my 460ci

Ian 46
12-09-07, 08:18 PM
My engine is coming from Southern Automotive in the States and is half way across the Atlantic at this very moment. It is their super FE engine which is the Ford 390 cubic inch engine bored and stroked to 452 cu in. As my signature says I hope 510 bhp is enough.

mylesdw
12-09-07, 09:51 PM
yes that would make sense, or you could fit the the smaller round lights (or even different ones altogether) to an adaptor plate then swap post sva, but fitting after sva/before paint makes th emost sense to me!

Since it seems that a lot of guys are basically doing two builds: one for the SVA and one for the car you actually want there seems to be a business opportunity for someone. Why not put togather a 'cheap' fully SVA compliant Cobra and hire it out to people who need SVA? All these post-SVA mods mean that the car that hits the road is not the same car that passed SVA so why not go one step further and make it REALLY not the same car? Just a thought...

Purple AK
12-09-07, 10:13 PM
Since it seems that a lot of guys are basically doing two builds: one for the SVA and one for the car you actually want there seems to be a business opportunity for someone. Why not put togather a 'cheap' fully SVA compliant Cobra and hire it out to people who need SVA? All these post-SVA mods mean that the car that hits the road is not the same car that passed SVA so why not go one step further and make it REALLY not the same car? Just a thought...
Fraud?...........?

Ian 46
12-09-07, 10:38 PM
The problem is Myles that we here have to submit our completed cars before the Ministry of Transport Inspectorate for a four hour long, very thorough assessment/inspection/test, during which every aspect of the car is examined and noted.

If our cars comply fully to current regulations at the end of the test we are awarded a Ministry Approval Certificate which then means we can register the vehicle for use on the public roads.

Because the Cobra is a vehicle of the sixties, it's very shape and design details mean that it needs a little help in some form or other to comply with 21st century regulations e.g. all windscreens are now made with radiused edges to comply, but wind wings and sun visors are not and should therefore not be fitted. But owners still do.

We have been talking details here, that's all. No one is suggesting for a minute the we purposely flout the law. I personally think that SVA test has raised the quality of the finished kits we now see on our roads to a universal standard that would not have been possible some years ago.

We are however all individuals and some of us are doing our best to create as original a car as we can and stay within the spirit of the law.

mylesdw
12-09-07, 11:06 PM
The thing is, that just about everyone DOES seem to be flouting the law! They take a car along that has been specially built to pass SVA and then take it home and alter it. It is not a short list of typical changes:

wind wings, visors, gauges, steering wheels, lights, spinners, mirrors, exhausts, bumper bars, bodywork, engine...

Everybody interprets the law to suit themselves, picking and choosing which bits of SVA they agree with. ALL the SVA regulations are there for a good reason so why should it be alright to disregard SOME of them.

If you accept the SVA is just a paperwork exercise and that ultimately you will choose what is safe/unsafe why bother to present your car at all? Just build your car to include all the bits of SVA you agree with and present another car to be tested to get the paperwork.

It goes back to the old question of which bit actually consitutes 'the car'; many would say the body/chassis but if you had a bit of bad luck and ended up rebodying your Cobra would you retake the SVA as a new vehicle or would you just move the VIN plate to the new chassis? If not the body/chassis then which bit is the 'heart' of the vehicle? How many bits can you change before it is not the same car? Food for thought...

taurus
13-09-07, 08:21 AM
Ian,
The way to approach the rear light problem is to fit seperate lights for indicator and brake for SVA using the holes predrilled by John. Do not have the body sprayed before building a definte pain in the arse. Then after sva and before spraying, fill holes and then recut to your own size.
I have a full set of rear lights only used for sva if you are interested.

Peter.

craggle
13-09-07, 08:35 AM
It's true that most owners do adapt their cars after the SVA test to the specs they originally intended and the SVA people know this. The first thing the tester of my car said was "I hope to god your going to change that awful steering wheel when you get home".
The SVA test is more about building a safe car. My tester was far more interested in the brakes, Suspension, Wheels, Tyres than he was about external radius's on the windscreen. They do check and make a note of the chassis numbers during the test so testing a different car may be difficult (but not impossible)

What we are doing is exactly the same as buying a brand new Land Rover which has passed it's type approval then taking it home and bolting on winches, Roof racks, Bull Bars, Spot lights Etc. None of these items would pass an SVA test but they are freely available from suppliers.

I doubt there is any cobra replica on the road at the moment that would now pass it's SVA test again without modification.

Craig.

Ian 46
13-09-07, 08:52 AM
Hi Taurus, can you send me a PM with details. Regards Ian

dingocooke
13-09-07, 04:51 PM
......there is a noticeble flat area of the body moulding at the rear lights, which is covered by the Healey lights, but not covered by the Hilman ones, so this would need to be addressed before paint to get the desired effect later......

.....Unfortunately if you leave it until after paint (as my car) its not a quick change (well not for me, so have I missed something, or am I being too picky?).....

This is what I mean, see the ERA Cob picture with the rear lights; see the flat area above the light unit??

http://www.lasvegasmc.com/shared/viewer.aspx?&iid=1847257&src=eBay&pid=8

KevinW
13-09-07, 09:45 PM
This is what I mean, see the ERA Cob picture with the rear lights; see the flat area above the light unit??

http://www.lasvegasmc.com/shared/viewer.aspx?&iid=1847257&src=eBay&pid=8

... but is that the original look on the original cars? was the rear wing re-shaped to go round these rectangular lights?

dingocooke
14-09-07, 09:12 AM
No not if you look at the original cars with the Hilman rear lights in the Legate book (and elsewhere) I think the visible flat area is something that has developed as kit manufacturers have gone for the Healey lights, the rear of a hawk doesnt have this flat area (well it does but its Hilman light shaped, as is a kirkham)

Antony
24-09-07, 10:51 AM
Ian,

>We have been talking details here, that's all. No one is suggesting for a minute >the we purposely flout the law. I personally think that SVA test has raised the >quality of the finished kits we now see on our roads to a universal standard >that would not have been possible some years ago.

Why wouldnt you flout some of the laws they are B/S!
I agree SVA on the important safety parts is great and improves the standard and potentially getting bad PR if someones Cobra has a major failure and the powers that be want further control.

In Australia ( I live not far from Myles in NZ) they are bringing in noise detectors, and possible air bags etc in kit cars etc it just gets worse and worse, I think at the end of the day a straight out racing car is going to be the way to go, and soon run on alternative fuels.

I personally am going to get my car certified without windscreen even though my wipers etc will comply, bolt the doors shut, as the MGTF Locks dont comply here. It just makes my blood boil with some of these stupid rules, and we are here with this build achieving a high quality, and I dont need idiots behind desks bringing in more virtually un-achievable laws - so bloody pc.

Exhaust guards, high level brake light etc will only be going on for the certification and coming straight off, just like most of you chaps with your SVA.

dingocooke
24-09-07, 10:59 AM
Theres an old saying, 'only worry about the things you can change' kind of has a double meaning to this topic!
Yes Imsure most of us hate the strident song of the PC minority, and the ever increasing regulation; but unless the silent majority wakes up and protests, instead of just winging, its not likely to go away anytime soon; so my advice for a long time now has been 'enjoy it while you can'

Great looking build by the way Anthony.

dinosoar
24-09-07, 12:37 PM
I have hear'd rumours that certain Cobra manufacturers (and other Kit companies) might have had a little heat over multiple presentation of the same chassis for SVA.....
No names but it is hardly surprising.

Andy

dingocooke
24-09-07, 12:43 PM
Oh dear; however you dress that up its fraud, and HMG dont take kindly.
Just the sort of thing that gets the reguations tightened up further.

dominik
10-09-08, 04:37 PM
In any case, as stated earlier, the rectangular lights hardly cover the area most replicas have provided for the round lights. Sorry, but that looks odd... I have done it on my RAM and never liked it.

Dominik

Antony
10-09-08, 10:01 PM
In any case, as stated earlier, the rectangular lights hardly cover the area most replicas have provided for the round lights. Sorry, but that looks odd... I have done it on my RAM and never liked it.

Dominik

I have modified the flat area and glassed it so the square light looks good on my Ram, quite an easy job compared to some of the other work I have to do to get the body looking right!
My Ram has a twist in the rear, from wheel arch back where the right side is up a good 3/4" looking at modifying the tailight position again because it needs building up in the valance (adding to the lower body edge to correct) on the right side and curving down to centre, more like original cars to hide this major descepency, which is very noticeable, hence the light can go down the same amount to look right - I think!!!!!!!

btw, I didnt notice the problem until after I did the square lights.......!

dave
11-09-08, 07:02 PM
PERFECT TIMING FOR THE REVIVAL OF A VERY DISTURBING THREAD.
KISS GOODBYE TO THE NEIGHBOURHOOD.:(:(:mad:

KevinW
11-09-08, 07:21 PM
It was slowly fading away till you bumped it? - cant actually see much wrong with it.
... what neighbourhood is that?

dave
11-09-08, 08:07 PM
It was slowly fading away till you bumped it? - cant actually see much wrong with it.
... what neighbourhood is that?

It was already at the top of the list, otherwise I wouldn't have posted.