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Andy302
28-02-08, 05:11 PM
Gents,

As promised here are the details I have been sent by the DFT.

Here are the edited emails received.

Email 1

Andrew,
I attach the latest draft standards for kit cars under 'bespoke IVA' which replaces the standard SVA scheme. It will be complicated to understand but the simplified version is not yet ready.

Email 2.

I attach a high-level comparison of SVA (and ESVA) versus BIVA (and IVA). I will see if we can produce a more detailed easy to use description of what is changing. I believe that the changes are not major. Some things are being checked that were not checked before (horn, mudguards/wheelguards, VIN plate), other items are revised.
VOSA will have the inspection manual ready later in the year (maybe August).

the timetable unfortunately is like a 'big bang' timetable, there is no phase-in period:
On 28th April the last SVA certificates will be issued, although we might in fact stop a few days early for training. On 29th April the IVA inspection will start. We will ask DVLA to continue to accept SVA certificates for a month or so afterwards to ensure that vehicles are not left 'orphaned' and unable to be registered despite having an SVA.

There will have to be a bit of a tail-off towards the end since we will need to leave free appointment slots for possible re-tests and staff will be absent being trained for IVA. Therefore my strong advice to SVA submitters is to avoid a vehicle being submitted in March-April 2009 - particularly in locations like Bristol and Southampton where there will be high demand from importers rushing to beat the deadline. Also avoid May 09 as there are sure to be teething problems with the new scheme. (Buit don't quote me on that!)
END




So there you go, now you know as much as me. Looking through the change points I dont know if theres anything thats a deal breaker, I would appreciate it if others could look and check also.

Maybe someone with good experience of building cars and putting them through SVA......

Ive put the files in as a zip archive as we cant upload a word doc bigger than two words or an excel file at all!

Hope these help.

The guy who has helped at the DFT is keen for feed back so if we can somehow get a sticky on this Rob so I can feedback to him with peoples comments then I will.

Cheers

Daxman
28-02-08, 05:47 PM
Hi All,

I have also recieved the following from VOSA.

Good afternoon,

Your enquiry has been passed to me due to its technical nature. This has
caused a delay in you receiving a reply, for which I apologise. Your
question is more involved than you might think, but I shall try to answer
all the points raised to enable you to make an informed decision on the
changes to the regulations in 2009.

The information on the stated web site has a foundation, but there is a lot
of false information being put about by people with a poor understanding of
what is actually happening. Basically, SVA will cease in May 2009 and be
replaced by Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA). This is in line with the
introduction of European Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) in 2009. This
is European legislation that we have to implement.

Currently we do not know what actual effect this will have on Kit Cars, as
the exact regulations are currently being formulated. But, currently, there
are no plans to stop Kit Car testing. However, it is fair to say that there
will be changes to the current SVA requirements and additional elements to
the test.

I have attached a link to the Department of Transport web site which deals
with the change in legislation coming in to effect in 2009. I have also
attached the Directive document which you may like to read as well.

Department for Transport - EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/)

(See attached file: Recast Framework Directive.pdf)

I do hope this information is helpful, but should you have any further
questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Best regards,

Mark

Mark Vickers
Technical Officer
Single Vehicle Approval
Passenger Cars & Light Goods Vehicles
Vehicle & Operator Services Agency
Department for Transport.

He also attached the european directive

Russ

Noel
28-02-08, 06:14 PM
Very good efforts?

All seems roughly the same as is now, Sect 40 looks interesting:

An engine power and maximum power speed shall be determined for each vehicle.

Will we get a free dyno test?? ;)

and Sect 15. Seat strength ....... I would have to rip out 8 sideways facing seats in my LWB Military Landrover to get it through :p

Hopefully a storm in a teacup for all those to yet pass a test 8)

kayjayd
28-02-08, 06:56 PM
Doesn't seem any great issues to me. However, I'm pleased I don't have to worry about it personally but looking at those files it isn't much different to SVA and could've been a whole lot worse.

wilf
28-02-08, 07:38 PM
So now you have to fit a horn.......always was a stupid omission.

And also, it appears you will need a manufacturers declaration of engine power and the rpms at which it is developed - closing a loophole I suspect.

We need to comb through this in fine detail- the main trouble I see is the multiple references to EU standards, not sure how we are going to get to or be able to plough through, those.

Main encouragement is that someone at least has indicated that amateur built kit cars are seen as "continuing". Of course, we are used to Civil Servants contradicting themselves................:rolleyes:

Andy - well dug out.

Andy302
28-02-08, 07:45 PM
Thanks Wilf, out of necessity really! Not sure what the split is on this site but Im sure a lot of us out have been a bit stressed these last couple of days.

Thats why I got a bit annoyed when Pats original post turned into who did what with the paperwork argument. Entertaining for those with legal cars, not much help to those with piles of bits!

Im not sure how to track down the relevant directives, Ill look into that and see if I can get up a library!

Gives me something to do while I save up for a gearbox!

Cheers

wilf
28-02-08, 07:48 PM
The old SVA manual didn't quote all these EC directives, so I suspect this is mainly "harmonisation". Lets hope that they don't expect us to get into all of those directives (which are aimed at mass producers of cars), but give us an easy reference manual, which is what the old one was.

Andy302
28-02-08, 07:52 PM
Yes I noticed that about the SVA document draft I have. Anyway found the directives!

Enterprise - Automotive Industry - List of Directives on Motor vehicles (http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/automotive/directives/vehicles/index.htm)

A little light reading!

I would imagine for the testers to be able to do their job things will have to be fairly easy to understand. Also as it appears they intend to stop SVA on the 28th and start IVA on the 29th with possibly only 2 days training, therefore I cant think its going to be massive changes.

v8pete
28-02-08, 08:21 PM
Nice work Andy!!

Hmm... I think this is going to be fun though ; take this for example :

10.
Electro-magnetic Compati-bility
The vehicle shall comply with the requirements of paragraph 6.1 of Annex 1 to Directive 72/245/EEC as amended by Directive 89/491/EEC, or of paragraph 6.1 of ECE Regulation 10.01.


So... as most GRP Cobra replicas don't come with an EMC compliance certificate, I can probably fix you all up with the use of an EMC chamber & RF spectrum analyser or two !- I dont think we've ever tried to drive a car into it though :mrgreen::mrgreen:

Pete.

Seriously though, as Wilf implies, the big hassle is going to be finding out/interperting/arguing over all these damned EU paragraph references!

oiler0
28-02-08, 08:48 PM
just seams just a load of old
boolocks to me
just like the old test was

but that's progress i guess !

steamyrotter
01-03-08, 07:12 PM
Nice work Andy!!

Hmm... I think this is going to be fun though ; take this for example :

10.
Electro-magnetic Compati-bility
The vehicle shall comply with the requirements of paragraph 6.1 of Annex 1 to Directive 72/245/EEC as amended by Directive 89/491/EEC, or of paragraph 6.1 of ECE Regulation 10.01.




Oh BOGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Might be in trouble there then!!!!!!!!
:o

By the way well done and thanks for getting the info.
Should be a sticky.

qkingston
03-03-08, 07:59 PM
From the information I have seen, things don't sound quite as bad as first seemed,however..... I notice on the DfT website in their commonly asked questions section, it states that a consultation will be run for individuals with a registered interest. Could we as a Club, or even a consortium of the Kit Car Industry register an interest so our voice could be heard. It might not change the world, but at least they might be more aware of our existence. Who would be the best placed to make such a representation? Is there a pan Kit Car forum who could do this? Are They? Can they be encouraged to do so?

In hope....

QK

Steve
04-03-08, 09:37 AM
It does seem that perhaps the manufacturers who have a vested interest in producing kits which will meet the regs will need to consider what elements may need to change soonest. THey ought to be ensuring that the product they sell meets the nerw standards, and therefore should be the ones chasing down the implications of the new rules and regs affecting their product.

robert
04-03-08, 09:44 AM
Guys

I have been having a chat around, and a LONG chat with Andy at GD.

The original SVA discussions were with the manufacturers, and they were invited to the consultation meetings.

Unfortunately, the manufacturers were not as involved with this process however from speaking to Andy, this is not going to change the process in a radical form for Kit Car owners.

The major change is to prevent a whole raft (no pun intended) of japanese imports coming into the UK, and also to raise additional revenue as the price for manufacturers is going to increase to around £400 to SVA a car. There is currently no indication of the possible price increases for owner builds though, we will just have to wait and see with that one.

The other changes are to bring us more in line with the EU directives.

If I find out any more, I will let you know.

Neil O
04-03-08, 11:27 AM
Had a quick look. Doesn't look to be too different to the current SVA really.

Some of the things I found;

Item 4. Space for number plate. I know that the AK can be a bit tight between the boot handle and the number plate light. Could need looking into?

Item 38. Head restraints. Are they saying that they will be a requirement? If so, fit the seats that have them and remove later if you want to?

General construction. (e) entry points. Could sidepipes be an issue here if your tester is having a bad day?

neilm
04-03-08, 11:39 AM
Thanks for posting the files up here Andy.

I for one was certainly concerned that my dream may not happen on reading the initial threads given my budget and time constraints.

steamyrotter
04-03-08, 09:24 PM
Item 38. Head restraints. Are they saying that they will be a requirement? If so, fit the seats that have them and remove later if you want to?

Or is it a case of only if they are fitted?

Must admit my look through has settled my nerves a bit.
Just an enhanced list and did mention kit cars in there.

However it doesn't mention Vipers!!!!!
Not sure how i can get any manufacturers information for it!

qkingston
05-03-08, 10:40 AM
Dean,
I'm in a similar position with my Euro 427. If you find out more regarding kits that have manufacturer difficulties, pse let me know

Regards

QK

Andy302
05-03-08, 05:24 PM
Does anyone have more comments (polite and constructive please!:twisted:) that they would like passed on to the DFT? I have already said that a manual without links to other EC directives but actual requirement would be useful plus an easy SVA vs IVA sheet to play spot the difference.

Post them up and Ill pass them on. :)

Cheers

steamyrotter
05-03-08, 08:38 PM
I think a booklet like the Draft SVA one that was floating around would be a good idea.

ie. the bits you need to comply with, and how, but spelt out in everyday language. Sort of "IVA for Dummies" type guide.

I like the idea of the comparison sheet, especially if like me you are half way through a build, it would be handy so that any changes can be addressed asap.

and any ideas about prospective charges, locations and processes?

soundiceuk
23-03-08, 01:54 PM
and Sect 15. Seat strength ....... I would have to rip out 8 sideways facing seats in my LWB Military Landrover to get it through :p

Please can you tell me which page this info is located on?

soundiceuk
25-03-08, 07:10 PM
Found it, guess that means bad news for stretch limousines???

craggle
25-03-08, 09:24 PM
and Sect 15. Seat strength ....... I would have to rip out 8 sideways facing seats in my LWB Military Landrover to get it through :p


That's why Land Rover defenders have a silly amount of seats now.:( The short wheelbase Land Rover 90 is only a 4 seat vehicle and the huge long wheelbase 110 is only a 7 seat vehicle.
They are not allowed to fit sideways facing seats now and all seats have to have seatbelts. Also the centre seat is not allowed because of all the gear levers infront of the passenger.

Our old 110 had 12 seats in it and my 1967 LWB is a 10 seater.

Craig.

KevinW
13-10-08, 07:16 PM
bump:
any new news on IVA ?

KevinW
13-10-08, 07:34 PM
Found this, updated in June....

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/publications/consultationsandresearch/consultationpapers/consultationpapers.htm

scroll down to M1 passenger cars pdf download

Rowly
16-10-08, 08:50 AM
has anyone managed to come up with a simple list of the changes that will actually affect the cobra kit car?.
I have seen the draft documents & refences to some specific items & eu directives etc etc.
I am also not sure if the draft document has yet been confirmed.
Possibly the Kit manufacturers would have an idea of what will actually be required.
It would be nice to have a readable overview, so that builders can get the big picture, then focus in on the details of specific items as required.

Rowland

andicole0
16-10-08, 09:30 AM
Pages 13 and 14 of the draft as available on the VOSA web (see link in thread above) shows the 60 or so areas to be 'tested' and the relevant EC regulations.

Kit cars will only go through a Basic IVA but it will cover more, a list of the new areas would be good to see. My local VOSA office only has a single sheet saying it's happening and that's all at the moment.

One thing that sticks out from page 13 is 'Rear Registraion Plate' !

Andi.

jcmatoso
06-11-08, 04:56 PM
Hi All,

Department for Transport - EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/)

(See attached file: Recast Framework Directive.pdf)

Russ

This attached file is a draft. The final approved directive is downloadable @ the link above. I got it the EurParliament in 3 languages (EN-FR-PO)

Cheers
Joćo