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TonyD
06-07-01, 09:51 AM
Is it always necessary to reduce the compression ratio on an engine when it is turbocharged? I'd always thought it was necessary to reduce the CR but doing some research on the web it appears that it may not always be necessary. There are some Turbocharging Kits available in the US that just bolt onto the engine without any internal modifications.......one kit I saw can get the wifes 2ltr Neon up to 225 bhp without changing anything inside the engine and using existing CR.

On the other hand I did have a Audi 100 turbo ( a wolf in a geriatric sheeps clothing) that had such a low CR that wouldnt run without the turbo connected.


Your thoughts please gentlemen ?

And please dont slag me off just 'cos the Mrs has got a Chrysler........its not a Jeep, the cabin is not 8ft off the ground, and I actually come from Wigan not Washington !!

David
06-07-01, 01:38 PM
My opinion is probably not the correct one but I would have thought that lowering the CR would not be necessary, you just have to give a little thought on your waste gate settings as this is the determining factor of how much boost you put into the engine. You may want to investigate which pistons to use as the engine will obviously run hotter and there is a real danger of melting an unsuitable set of pistons, thus writing off your engine.
If there is a real reason for lowering the CR, I would love to know as I have often thought of this very question and have yet to come up with an obvious answer.

cgnw28517
06-07-01, 02:07 PM
HI Tony I live in Wigan also, do you have the yellow Cobra I see round these parts???
Cheers Col.

kev
06-07-01, 02:11 PM
Increasing the inlet pressure effectively increases the compression ratio, e.g. on rover V8 boosting by 5psi will increase the effective compression ratio from 9.35 to approx 12:1. The effect of this is that you have to retard the timing because higher gas density increases the flame speed and if you are not careful pre-ignition will occur which can quickly wreck the engine. If you don't run too much boost you can achieve substantial power and torque gains but you must be sure to have correct fueling and correct ignition timing, hence fully mapped engine management systems are very useful, especially if they incorporate knock sensors

Kev

TonyD
06-07-01, 05:06 PM
Col,

Unfortunately the yellow Cobra isnt me as I am presently exiled in Birmingham from the land of my birth.........How I miss the pies !!


Thanks for the input so far.

Am I correct in thinking that a small amount of boost with a reprogrammed and remapped Fuel injection and ignition system, incorporating anti-knock sensors, would be a bolt on solution ?

The thinking behind all this is that if I can't get the V8 burble, as a result of using a donor motor with fewer cylinders, I might as well get a few extra bhp with the least inconvenience. Then once the donor engine gets a bit tired I have a really good excuse to buy the V8 I really want.

Any further ideas/opinions greatly appreciated.

Tony

wilf
06-07-01, 05:22 PM
I think kev is right - turbocharging or supercharging does increase the effective cr of an engine, thus you can run into pre-ignition problems, with attendant piston meltdown. Whilst I am sure it can be done, adding a turbo to an engine which is not normally turbo'd, or where there is no after-market supplier of bits and hard-won knowledge of how to do it, could be a bit of a task to take on.
Good old whistling rob (he of the worn cheque book) has a blower on his chevy - did he have to reduce cr? (sure he will put his 2c's in if we ask him).
As an alternative to all of this hard work, why not pick up an old but running rover v8 with a slushbox, leave it well alone and fit that from day one? That way you could keep the costs down and get the v8 burble you really want? I rather suspect that if you look hard enough, you might find such an engine and box for less of the folding stuff than trying to fit a turbo to a 4 pot motor.
These rover engines will run and run, even in poor condition, long as you change the oil regularly.
just my 2c

wilf

TonyD
06-07-01, 05:53 PM
Thanks for your comments Wilf,

I had thought about the Rover V8, seduced by the burble, but I'm after a bit more power than the Rover can provide in its basic state of tune, and if I get one from a breaker its very likely not to be in the rudest of health in the first place. A "guaranteed non smoker" just means that it actually runs, not even that its got the standard power available.

How many people have bought a Rover V8 engine, only to find that upon ispection its knackered and then they buy another, and another, and another.....ok I'm indulging in hyperbole but you get my drift.

If you start to tune the Rover it it gets very expensive and to my mind you're better off spending what money you would use tuning a rover and putting that into buying a V8 crate engine from the US or a LHD american import over here to get a donor motor from...more bangs for the buck.( to use an americanism!) and probably more reliable.......

I am considering using a Jag XJS , 3.6 with manual box, as a donor vehicle. Anyone got any experience in turbocharging this engine? As you will gather I will be using the Jags suspension anyway and as the engine and gearbox are there already.......it seems sensible to use them....at least initially.

Some years ago it was a widely held belief that Derbyshire police had a twin turbo Jaguar XJ12 operating on the M1 on loan from Jaguar as a test.........now if only I could get my hands on that as a donor......

Cheers,

Tony

robert
06-07-01, 06:44 PM
Tony

I have done a bit of engineering research, and pulled out my cheque book. Oops, sorry wrong post.

Anyway, I have a air-to-air intercooled supercharged 350 chevy and it is running at 8:1 compression. This allows me to run loads more boost without the fear of pinking (pre-detonation) or a need for ignition retard etc.

The more boost you run, the more percentage increse in horsepower and torque you get. If you can't change the CR on the engine, it only limits the amount of boost.

The following image gives you an idea of the boost to CR, however this is for supercharged engine which is what I did the research on, not turbo chargers, however I would presume the principle is the same.

http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/User_files/robert/boost.gif


Robert

The Whistler!

kev
06-07-01, 07:35 PM
You won't get a V8 burble from anything other than a V8. The noise they make is pure music and can't be "replicated" by any other engine configuration.

I take your point on wanting to use the available components, but consider whether spending 500 now on a tired engine that you want to end up with, is better value than having to remake engine mounts, gearbox mounts, clutch assembly, wiring loom, petrol pipes, prop shaft + all the other bits that I haven't thought of. There is undoubtedly a risk in buying second hand but myself and I'm sure many others have succesfully gone down this route. I too suffer from thin wallet syndrome and have had to purchase very carefully.

I'm running a Rover EFI Vitesse engine in my Cobra, 100k miles on the bores and it's OK but a bit tired. Over the winter I will be replacing this with a 4.6 that I'm in the process of rebuilding. The rebuild should end up with c. 280ft.lb of torque and about the same bhp. This should give me decent enough performance until I can afford to supercharge it. Predicted cost of the engine is about 1700 all in with me doing the work, god knows what a blower is going to cost me, I'll consider that when I've saved up some more child benefit :o kidding !

You don't need a fully mapped engine management system, it's just a lot easier than messing about with rising rate fuel regulators, distributor advance wieghts and vacuum advance curves. The amount of boost you can run depends on factors like the strength of the bottom end, the cylinder head gasket sealing capabilities, the original c.r. etc. The Whistler has posted a graph showing theoretical boost pressures for a given cr, I don't know where he got the data from but the info concurs with my info that 5 to 7 psi is about the most you shoould aim for in an engine not built for forced induction.

Good luck
Kev

TonyD
06-07-01, 08:52 PM
Thanks for all the information lads.......does anyone know what the % increase in power/torque I could get with a 5 to 7 psi boost?

You have also explained why the Audi I had, which earned me the nickname " "Turbo Nutter Bastard" in Burnley, was running at such a low CR....it was regularly boosting at 3 bar...which is I believe around
the 44psi mark.

I had it from new, did over 169,000 miles in two and a half years and it was still going strong when sold. Hence I am a fan of turbo's...

Tony.

robert
06-07-01, 09:10 PM
>Thanks for all the information lads.......does anyone know what the %
>increase in power/torque I could get with a 5 to 7 psi boost?

With only 7psi, not too much increase. The calculation for boost percentage increase is unfortunately not linear. To give you an indication, my chevy is 380hp naturally aspirated, and at 9psi boost, the output increased to about 500 hp. The maximum I can reasonably boost to is around 14psi max, which will provide around 650 to 700hp, however this is at 6000 rpm with the blower spinning at 60,000 rpm, so the last 6psi will give me an additional 150 to 200 hp increase, whereas the first 9 only gave a 120hp differential

Your Audi was running as 44psi at the top of the scale, and it is as you go further up the boost range that the increase become exponential.

Don't forget this is a supercharger which will not spin at the same speed as a turbo, therefore with a turbo, you will not see a lot of difference.

Don't quote me on this as I am really only thinking logically, and not as an engineer, god forbid.

Robert

The Whistler!

kev
06-07-01, 09:55 PM
44psi boost is extreme, way way way extreme. Even now 3 bar pressure would only be used with water injection for short periods of time on pretty radical engines for the road, expect to see something like 2.5x power increase at that boost, that must have been some beast }> Depending on the engine 5 psi will give around 25% increase. I've been told about a guy locally who is experimenting with an electrically driven supercharger, that should be an interesting project.

wilf
06-07-01, 10:51 PM
Tonyd - I hear what you say about scrapper rover v8's - there is a lot of truth in what you say, BUT - I still feel that if you want a v8, then get a v8. you are going to have such problems in "sorting" the turbocharging of an engine for which there is no previous learning curve.
I remember the type of audi you mention - it was designed for turbocharging in the first place, probably had a cr closer to whistlers (8:1) than a normally aspirated engine. How you got away with 44psi is amazing - you lucky g*t! but nevertheless, that was a one off - sensible thought still means, in my humble opinion, that you would get as much of a "blast" from the sound of your cobra as the outright performance. I used to own a Sumo, with a fairly standard rover v8, and enjoyed pootling around, listening to that v8 burble, almost as much as WOT on the straights. If you see any of my previous posts, you will realise that for me, cobra = v8. Can't force that down anyone else's throats, but go to some shows, listen to the cars as they rumble, and you may see what I mean.
I know that rover v8's will continue to run with damage/wear that would mean instant scrapyard for most 4 pot motors - my previous thoughts still stand.

my further 2c's

Wilf

cobraman
06-07-01, 11:00 PM
BLIMEY!...this IS a back to basics one!!
I'm not into waffle!...so here it is...Its all a question of atmospherics...As the piston is on the induction stroke,it creates a negative pressure in the bore.This is because the piston is drawing against 1 atmosphere,(indeed maybe LESS if you're driving up a mountain!)..This neg.pressure levels off as the piston travels up the bore,then turns into positive press.rising to say 10:1 at TDC....NOW..10:1 means a 10 inch stroke leaves 1 inch of room at TDC so the compression cannot be altered...its compressing 1000ccs' into 100ccs' of room and thats that!
HOWEVER...if the initial neg. press. is not present..(due to forced induction)..then the compressed "pre-charge" raises compression and,for simplicity say,1100ccs' of air(at 1 atmos) can enter the bore.Into the same compression chamber means 11:1 compression.
Now...if anyone remembers putting a thumb over the and of a bike pump and pulling the piston out...you can feel that quite some effort is required to do this....and it's the same for an engine....power is lost,hand over fist,by the pistons on the induction stroke...this can be turned into a net gain by forced induction overcoming this...I would guess that the Chrysler system is a "low bar" system to assist induction.
So,simply(and I do apologise for the simplicity!)...you can't argue with Newton and Archimedes!...If you create compression above a certain level...your engine AIN'T gonna like it!...pre-ignition...non-starting...blown gaskets and a new engine will result!
Have fun.....DJ.

TonyD
07-07-01, 01:01 AM
Phew..........theres lots to take in here.

1. I'd love a V8 but for a good one ie over 300bhp I'd have to spend plenty. If I'm going to spend lots of dosh it will be on a US V8. In the meantime I'm forced to use donor mechanicals 'cos of budgetary constraints. Mrs likes her holidays, new house etc.

2. Turbo charging a lump thats not really designed for it looks like it will be a complete nightmare......but what a challenge ... and the sense of achievement in actually beating the problem........either that or I will be found swinging from the garage roof joists. Perhaps I'll build the car first and then look at getting easy grunt from the engine when its finished!!

3. Hell, I had no idea that the Audi was such a monster...... no wonder I melted and blew the catalytic converter out of the back following the Network Q Rally route down from Keilder forest........smelt like I was cooking chips I was told by someone trying to keep up with me. Can you believe I used to tow a caravan with that beast....wish I hadnt sold it now. But I now remember that it had its own cooling fan and trunking that sucked cool air from the front of the radiator grill and blew it through the trunking moulded over the engine and exited right over the top of the turbo. The bloody fan used to keep going well after the car had stopped so in the end I disconnected it as it was keeping me awake when I got home late!!

Thanks for the info and advice.....

Tony

David
08-07-01, 11:24 PM
The CR of an engine does not change just because you turbo-charge the engine. It must be remembered that the volume in the cylinder remains the same, but the MASS (weight) of the charge is greater thus giving a higher pressure to compress in the first place.

imported_admin
10-07-01, 12:03 AM
About 6 years ago I used to run a Rover lump in my Dax. I got a bit fed up with this and now have a 460ci lump in it, if your going to have one have a big one!. Any way what to do with the old SD1 V8, good idea at the time was to put it into the wifes MGB roadster. I found an old janspeed single turbo set up and decided it would be a good idea to bolt this on. First thing is you need a really good oil supply, the Rover is high volume at low pressure. First run when it got hot no oil pressure at all. Real Steel do a booster plate. Instructions says grind a small bypass into the body of the pump approx 5mm x 5mm Why bother I thought, the turbo will take care of the extra oil. Firstly when cold the lifters pumped up so much the engine would only run on 5 cyls. Got the engine warm, pressure dropped off a bit, engine running on all 8, give it a rev, splash, oil pressure split the top ring of the oil filter. Out with the grinder for the relief passage, now ok. Running 9.75:1, I dont need to drop the compression ratio, I know it all, big rev down the A4 one day, sorry dear blew the head gaskets and spun most of the main and big end shells. Off to Real Steel again for a set of 8.5:1 Land Rover pistons. After all that the car ran really well. Set up was such thru 390 Holly with mechanical secondarys and 5psi boost. Rolling road @ Tom Airey in Winchester showed 255bhp at the rear wheels. All those big talking boys who state they run 30-40 psi boost, can I have one of those funny smelling ciggies thier smokin cause its either helping them with thier stories or helping them get over busted engines. Good place to start with is Gale Banks Turbos in USA, what they don't know isn't worth asking about. Janspeed lot are not worth bothering with, thier about as helpfull as John Prescott in an AA van.If you need any more info let me know.

PeteV
10-07-01, 10:22 AM
You know what I'd do ?

Go find myself an nice T16 turbo motor from a Rover 800. Next get hold of an old 2litre SD1 bellhousing such that you can bolt the standard SD1 5-speed box on the back. Hey presto - an easy 230 bhp & torque to match plus all the benefits of modern engine management !

Pete.

RigMan
11-07-01, 06:25 PM
Jesus, how can you not put a V8 into the car. Somebody tried to give me a ford 302 the other day, people are giving them away. I didn't want it so it went in the skip! There are plenty of so called undesirable V8's out there which will cost pittance to put together for a basic rebuild. Whats more you will still have far more power and Torque than almost anything else out there on the street! It's a Cobra man put a V8 in it!!!!!!!!

RigManx( :'( :-(

TonyD
12-07-01, 03:11 PM
Rigman, I understand your sentiments and agree wholeheartedly with them........However as I explained in earlier posts...I'M TOO SKINT to afford a "proper" US V8 straightaway, hence I am looking for an interim compromise.

If you have a V8, even if you think its not a very popular one, please throw it in my direction and not in the skip. I firmly believe an orderly queue will begin to form behind me as news of your largesse spreads.

BTW what engine have you got in yours and how much, roughly, did it cost together with gearbox?

Cheers,

Tony

imported_admin
13-07-01, 06:08 PM
Hi, Tony. I'm own a 93 Mazda Miata LE that has a turbo kit on it. Here in the States, we can run up to 6 pounds of boost on these engines (9.5 CR) before needing an intercooler. That seems to be about the limit to most manufacturers also. My timing is set to 8 degrees BTDC, down from the 14 BTDC I was running before the turbo install. Needs premium gasoline all the time, gets 31 MPG unless I get a little happy. I get 135 - 140 hp at the wheels at this level, up from the original 100 - 105. I have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator set at 45 lbs that richens the mix properly.

With careful tuning, you can add a turbo to a non-turbo motor but don't expect a major increase in HP (25 - 40% is normal). A higher boost will get you more HP but requires more $$$$$ and can cause some MAJOR headaches.

Good Luck

wilf
13-07-01, 10:46 PM
Tonyd - I do (believe me 'cos I did it before) understand what it means to build a cobra on a budget, but I still don't understand why you feel you have to go for a "proper" V8 to begin with - as I said before, you can pick up a boggo rover V8 and 'box for peanuts and drop it straight in - whatever it's comdition - even a standard rover V8 will give you more "go" in a cobra than the average so-called "sports car". You don't need 300 hp! You don't have to spend 's on a "big" US V8 to begin with, and you won't have the hassle of trying to turbo some 4-cylinder jobby, which still won't sound right, even after you have spent hours (and 's) sorting it. From word go you will have the V8 "burble" the cobra deserves, and you really want to hear.

Tell me what you have against a "budget" V8?? Please??

My 2c's (again)

Wilf

RigMan
14-07-01, 09:52 AM
Tony D, Wilf is right, some V8's are either dirt cheap (100 quid used max) and some are being given away. If you don't start out with a v8 to start with you will face bigger problems later when you upgrade. You will need to change your motor/gearbox mounts, new exhausts and headers, all new plumbing, upgrade of radiators etc. You are best waiting a bit longer to afford the cheap rover or whatever, rather than do anything else if you plan on putting in a V8 in later.

You can of course spend whatever you want on engines/gearboxes, and believe me they can be as cheap or as expensive as you want. It is actually the power that costs, not the engine itself, so the more you want, the more it costs! My Chevy/Tremec combination cost alot of money because I was able to and chose to spend it. If you have a local American car specialist, go around their yard, they are bound to have loads of used engines kicking about, they'll be glad to get rid of some of their less popular bits for a 'bit of folding' .


RigMan;-)

TonyD
15-07-01, 05:49 PM
Ever wished you'd not asked a question ?......

Wilf where did you get the idea I'm putting in a 4 pot......I'm looking at 6 cylinders minimum.

What have I got against paying out good money on an engine that will have a dubious history, definitely seen better days and only ever put out a measly 47 bhp per litre when brand new ( Rover 3.5 ) , when theres a perfectly good and much more powerful engine sitting in the donor car ? Nothing really.

Rigman, any form upgrade later will mean new engine mountings, radiator, pipe runs, electrics, manifoild and exhausts etc......so what does it matter if I use a donor as opposed to buying a cheap V8 as then I've got to buy the box, starter, flywheel, clutch etc etc..

By the time you've got your V8, cobbled together a gearbox, clutch etc you're not looking far short of a grand I bet.......far better in my mind putting that cash towards a Crate engine from the US..

Is it the thought of a non V8 engine in a Cobra which upsets you ? Would a Viper's V10 be acceptable or is authenticity more important. Is a Cobra without a V8 not a Cobra ? How far should we go in search of authenticity?......Must stop now with these big questions as my brain hurts........

Cheers,

Tony

kev
15-07-01, 06:51 PM
Viper V10 is fine in a Viper. V8's sound like nothiing else on earth!!!.

It's nothing to do with authenticity I'd like to bet that for 90% of owners the 2 things that matter in a Cobra are its looks and that gorgeous music on full noise from a V8.

Don't forget you asked for peoples opinions and that's what you got personal opinions, it's entirely your decision to agree or not.

As the man said, just my 2c's worth

Kev

wilf
16-07-01, 12:18 PM
Tony - please don't get the idea that I infer that anything other than a V8 is somehow "wrong". These cars are individual, built by individuals to their own plan, and that's just fine. All I want to get over to you is that for me, (and it looks like for several others as well), much of the appeal of the cobra is the music only a V8 can make.
If you drop in the donor engine as a "temporary" measure, good for you and I hope you're happy with it, just remember how "permanent" "temporary" can be!
When I built my first car, I too was more than strapped for cash, but a Rover V8 and 'box unmodified from a scrapper was what I personally wanted, and what I did. Didn't cost me the earth, and even the standard V8 pushed the car along at a fine rate. And I sold the donor motor too!

just my (further) 2 c's

Wilf

RigMan
16-07-01, 04:19 PM
Tony, you may end up saving a grand by not buying a cheap motor, but what about all the money you'd wast on getting new engine mounts fitted, new exhausts/headers, new electrics etc. The V8's are so cheap to do up you could buy an old chevy, spend a little just to replace bearings and give it a general overhall and decoke etc which would cost you little. Then you could spend the money later on a new performance item when funds allow. You can even use the existing block to do up. The benefit of that is that you will still utilise all the other hard ware that you would otherwise spend swapping over from a V6 to a V8.

You can buy a cut out 350 chevy for 300 quid and tart it up for as little or as much as you want. Then over one winter you can rebuild it and get the performance out of it you want. That way you have wasted very little money and is the efficient way of doing it.

I'm sure in the end you will do what you think is right for you. However, both Wilf and I are experienced in builds, and it us unlikely that we are both wrong.

RigMan:-)

wilf
16-07-01, 05:42 PM
Rigman - thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm pretty sure that I am as capable of being wrong (or stupid) as the next man! (See my post "The most stupid thing I've done").
As someone else has pointed out on this thread - ask a question, and you will get people's opinions! That's what I have given, and opinions are fairly universal things - we all have them, not many are correct!
Still - it's always nice to see someone else sharing your own opinion, so thanks again!

Wilf

David Large
16-07-01, 06:50 PM
Tony,
I guarantee that following a non V8 Cobra for 50 yards and listening to it will make up your mind that V8 is the only way to go. Listen to the cars that pull off the club pitch at Stoneleigh and other shows.
As a Cobra starter what do you want? You will probably rarely exceed 100-110 mph on public roads and if you want to get there quickly then diff ratio selection will help. There are loads of guys with old Rover V8's and big smiles on their faces. My car is one although we did rebuild the engine significantly whe we built the car 12 years ago. Sure it must be nice to have lots of American muscle, but can you afford the fuel? When I was running a lower ratio diff(3.7:1) and used to attend the meets at Loughborough the 350 ci engine boys were horrified that they couldn't really leave me behind.
Still it's your choice, but you may spend a lot of your life explaining what engine you've got in it.
My 2 pence worth,
David Large
Silver Surfer with a 289

wilf
16-07-01, 09:50 PM
David - my sentiments exactly. I now have to say sorry to you for having made an unguarded remark about live rear axles (remember?) At the time it was in the heat of the moment regarding a certain person with somewhat unbalanced views , and I had forgotten about the BRA and Hawk 289's. Very nice cars! I've never seen a badly put together BRA or Hawk, don't know why? Maybe it's because they are somehow more "gentlemanly" than their brasher 427 cousins?

more of my 2 c's (at this rate I'll soon have a whole dollar!)

Wilf

David Large
16-07-01, 10:41 PM
Wilf, You are getting soft as you age. You'll even be saying nice things about J**Ps next. Well I suppose we all want to have what is the best going, but I don't think I would have had more fun over the years just because I had 350ci. When we finished our 289 kit Cobras were fairly rare AND you didn't get build manuals/videos and factory support. The kids of today don't realise how easy they have it.
I remember at Cotes Mill, Loughborough (where the CRC used to have a meet) being taken for a spin in a newly finished 427. There was a big lump in one rear tyre so the ride was a bit Alton Towers, there wasn't much room in the passenger seat because of the huge toolbox in the footwell (this was essential equipment) and when we pulled away the scuttle and screen moved to the right about 2 inches (sorry 50mm). After this I took the guy in my car and he said "Bloody Hell, this is like being in a proper car, I didn't realise they could be like this".
Now my car is a long way off perfect and for sure is not everybody's ideal but we all have to what we think is best (and I'm quite attached to my axle; I've had it a long time!).
I have a sneaking admiration for the people that chase technical extremes with excellence (Robert) and Rigmans and James' cars looks great, but none would suit me. I just love the pure 289 shape.
However I could not live with a non V8..I was an alpha male once you know!
If I win the lottery I will buy a Viper; the steering wheel is on the right side for Le Mans trips.
David Large
Silver Surfer with a 289!
You can see a picture of my car on the 289 register site under members cars.

wilf
17-07-01, 10:35 AM
David - no I'm not going soft, guess I'll usually be around somewhere when controversy rears it's head, but I do have a soft spot for the 289, and nearly went that way for my own (second) car. Decided eventually to build as close a 427 replica as I could with plenty of cubes as I just love going fast!!(hence the Crendon). Since I surmise from the fact that you used to attend the old Loughborough meet that you must be relatively local to me in Leicester, have you ever considered going to the "Interesting Cars" meet at Watnall on the first and third Monday evenings of each month? I have been up a couple of times, usually 2 or 3 cobras plus lots of classic/vintage stuff. Nice laid back evening meet of car minded folks of all persuasions. Let me know if you want more details. Maybe I should publicise this meet more on this forum??

Wilf

robert
17-07-01, 10:35 AM
>I have a sneaking admiration for the people that chase technical
>extremes with excellence (Robert) and Rigmans and James' cars looks
>great, but none would suit me. I just love the pure 289 shape.

David

Thanks for that, although its only because I am a cheque book builder.

LOL

Robert

The Whistler!

RigMan
17-07-01, 10:40 AM
.................what about Credit Card Builds? That's me, but is that an inferior or superior build over a Cheque book build? (sorry, but my alpha male competative streak needs to know!)


RigMan:7

robert
17-07-01, 11:15 AM
Cheque Book or Credit Card, both the same. More money than sense according to Jeep drivers!!

Robert

The Whistler!

wilf
17-07-01, 11:30 AM
What about "Extend the Mortgage" builds??

Wilf

robert
17-07-01, 12:58 PM
I don't know about that, but the build to let option is there. I suppose an deffered payment can class you or me as a lazy git!!!

Robert

The Whistler!
}> }> }> }> }> }>

David Large
17-07-01, 01:22 PM
Wilf,
I don't live near Leicester, I live just north of Birmingham, but Cotes Mill was the nearest place to go to a meet, and they were good. The event you describe sounds good too.......you should publicise. I am going to go to the Midlands meet tomorrow on the A5 at Cannock, weather permitting. It's a bit black over Bill's mothers here at the moment.