View Full Version : sumo engine

02-01-02, 10:52 PM
I'm just about to get started on building....my friendly salvage man has a Sierra 2.8 4x4 engine and gearbox. Does anyone know whats needed to get rid of the front wheel drive bit? Is this engine useable?


Kevin W
03-01-02, 07:13 AM
Mark Ash might be able to help you. see


or www.mark-ash.co.uk.

Anything else, give me a call, I'm not that far from you - 01252 678830 or email me using the facility on this site. I'm up to the carpetting stage now.


03-01-02, 10:53 AM
For starters you want the more modern 2.9, not the 2.8. They go for about the same price so it is well worth doing as Ford ironed out some of the problems with the 2.8 with the change over and it has more power. But old enough not to need a CAT for the test.

Your options are then to,

A) Use one from an XR4x4i replacing the sump and gearbox with one from an XR4i or Granada, simple job.

B) Get one from a 2.9 Granada as it is already set up for two wheel drive and will cost about the same if not less and saves you having to hunt around for a good box and sump.

C) Have the bellhouseing made up, a few people make them, to bolt a Sierra Cosworth T5 box on which can take all the hammering that engine is capable of producing even with the twin turbo conversion.

XR4i boxes are now few and far between, however I know someone who has a recon for sale at the moment if you want me to chase it up for you.

If I can be of any more help let me know.


03-01-02, 08:18 PM
Thanks, team - I think I'll just wait a bit and find out more from the scrap man first. It may be a 2.9 - the car was under another one, deep in the yard. I was just glad to see a complete engine with a manual box at the time!

04-01-02, 10:19 AM
Hi Bernie,

I don't know how heart set you are on getting a Ford V6 block or if you have considered getting another lump for your cobra. I was looking down similar routes as you when I first started my build a year ago to the day, but after looking in to the costs of aquiring the Ford v6 and having it rebuilt and then having also the expense of getting another gearbox. I realised that for a few hundred more I could get a Recon Rover v8 3.5 with a brand new R380 Gearbox, performance manifold + Holley Carb - Sure the overall running costs of the rover unit is higher but power to weight ratio - it beats the ford into an oily pulp of unrecognisable goo. needlsess to say for my sportster, I went with the Rover :7

04-01-02, 12:24 PM
Bernie - I was going to post a repy here a couple of days ago, then I had PC problem, so it looks as tho' Dan has beaten me to it on the point I was going to make:
The Ford V6 is not a totally great engine for a Cobra. It's heavy, has limited power output, and is difficult to tune. Lastly it will never sound like a V8. When I had my old Sumo, with a standard Rover 3.5 V8 apart from mild cam upgrade, I had a mate who lived locally who had built a Ford V6 engined Sumo. He had spent a fair bit on tuning his engine. My car would just walk away from his in a straight drag - power to weight was better.

So -as Dan says, unless you are really dying to use that V6, think again - even a standard Rover V8 would be better (and improve the handling due to less weight at the front). Your eventual ease of resale ( and price you get) would also be far better with the V8.

Just my 2 c's


04-01-02, 07:04 PM
Thanks to all - I take your points chaps.
I had been considering the Rover V8 for the reasons you give, and still am, I suppose, especially after what you've all said. It was/is just that the man at the scap yard is very friendly, and happens to have a number of Fords and no Rovers, as far as I can tell. I had punted around a bit, and he seemed the most helpful when I said the words kit car, as he has something out of Mad Max in a shed mostly complete. On the phone today he was getting quite enthusiastic about Cosworth this and that! I'll ask again about what's available, maybe he has a Rover stashed away too.
Thanks again for this discussion - whatever engine I get, I rather expect to be back to ask more!

06-01-02, 06:36 PM
It very difficult not to get enthusiastic about Cosworth tuned engines :7

06-01-02, 07:15 PM
>It very difficult not to get enthusiastic about Cosworth tuned engines

Oh I don't know about that....I used to have a guy working for me,who used to spend all night thrashing about in his "Two bobsworth"(cosworth)Sierra,and 4 hours on my time the next morning fixing it,so he could do it all over again the next night.
"blown head gaskets,smokey turbos,broken gearboxes,broken propshafts,noisey diffs...no thanks".....Not to mention that the doors fall off Fords after 70,000 miles....He cost me a bloody fortune in lost man hours.
x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x(

06-01-02, 08:59 PM
I don't find that difficult at all - "there is no replacement for displacement" is a great motto in my view!


07-01-02, 01:10 PM

"blown head gaskets,smokey turbos,broken gearboxes,broken propshafts,noisey diffs!”

Firstly I find the fact that I have to explain to a ‘pro builder’ that gearboxes, propshafts and diffs aren’t actually engine parts a little disturbing. ;-)

As for blown gaskets and turbos, well any fool can blow an engine and as the original un-tampered with Sierra Cosworth 2.0 engine was in it’s day known as a solid engine I fear your employees weren’t up to scratch.

Although the engine used in the Sierra Cosworth is just the tip of the iceberg from a company that has been producing race-winning engines for longer than I have been on this planet, it is an impressive lump. There aren’t many four pots that, especially in those days, are capable of getting a family saloon to 180mph. :7

O and what have doors falling off fords at 70,000 miles possibly got to do with the price of fish on a Sunday.

Anyway returning to ‘sumo engine’…


07-01-02, 04:28 PM

do you have a cosworth fanatic in our midst???? ;)

After racing many cossies in my T4, and not one getting away :P I thought I'd check the spec of the classic cossie, as provided by 'The illustrated Book of Classic & Dream Cars'

Sierra RS Cosworth (1986-1992)

Capacity 1993cc 4cyl DOHC 16V New 16V heads after 1990 for 4x4 versions. Turbocharged.
Power 204(standard) to 224(RS500) BHP a few 240BHP 4x4 were made
5 Speed Manual
Top speed 143-149Mph
No Built 26,771
0-60 = 6.2seconds (standard)

about the same as the new skoda octavia sporty version! }> }>

12-01-02, 09:11 PM
Hi. Norman.
Only just seen this.
Yeah this 180 mph stuff!
I left a chipped (poss 275/285 BHP) Cossie (2 passengers)fading into a dot in the rear view mirror of a BMW M3 3.0 (1993 model)(5 passengers) and that had the factory 155 MPH speed limiter fitted.
P.S. I had 170+ MPH out of one of these M3's with the limiter removed... they're real flyers when you wind them up.

I think all the Cossie problems arise when people chip them without carrying out all the other work needed to make the car reliable ie, "O" ringing the block etc.
I'll tell you one thing though,Thrashing around in his Cossie got him more fa**y than you could shake a stick at.It was quantity rather than quality though.;-)

13-01-02, 08:25 AM
....and I only said the word "Cosworth" in passing. Interesting to discover what things wind people up when you join a new world!


14-01-02, 09:35 PM
:7 :7 :7 :7

15-01-02, 07:33 PM
Iv'e been in contact with a guy ( Chris Dale) who has a Rover v8 for sale here is a short discription of the engine. 3.5 Vitesse (stiif block casing)Vitese
Heads Electronic Dizzy 3.9 camshaft pair SUs all for £295 , i Won't put his phone number here, however here is the e-mail. metropower2000@hotmail.com
the engine was still for sale on the 28/12/01 . Ps if you want his phone number call me 01708386842.


16-01-02, 05:53 PM
Hehe - that was me :)

The engine has just been sold to a bloke (a fellow CRC member) from Bristol. Sorry guys. On the other hand if you wanted an LSD from an XR4x4....;)

Chris }>

17-01-02, 07:38 AM
Well, thanks for the thought anyway Graham. As for an LSD, no thanks - anyone else hiding a good engine?

17-01-02, 11:43 AM
I know that this might upset some but what the heck; if you are prepared to put a V6 in a Cobra then maybe you are bold enough to take the same route as I am...

Have you considered a Chevy? I am not referring to an expensive ready-made top tuned Chevy 350. What I am thinking about is an abandoned 305 TBI for instance.

I have played with the idea (I have already ventilated enough thoughts about it on this forum) and I finally gave up the idea in favour of the classical Chevy 350.

That was until some weeks ago when I heard a rumour of an abandoned 305 TBI that had been used for street racing. The owner had used it for some years in his big black Chevy truck. The gearbox finally broke and he decided to rebuild the engine at the same time as he rebuilt the gearbox. The gearbox was modified for street race with loads of Corvette parts etc. The engine got ported, got new cams, got equipped with headers and got modified ignition and TBI. The owner finally lost interest in this engine and started to build a LT1 with double turbo instead.

He offered me this engine and the gearbox for only 10000 SEK = 663 GBP (that is almost the cost of all the sensors that he had replaced all over the engine, they are all new!) and I also got a pair of LT1 headers, data modules, cable harness and gearbox yoke. I grabbed the opportunity and bought the engine.

This was a turnkey engine, all prepped for street racing a heavy truck. It might not be my number one selection but the price is right because no one ever considers hot rodding a 305 TBI so it is not that easy to get your money back if you actually spend the money on hot rodding it.

I will use this engine for now. It is easy to swap it for a 350 in the future (same engine and gearbox mounts) if I find that the 305 aren’t powerful enough.

Main gain for me is:
* Low HP on paper (good if you are building your own car in Sweden, se my previous posts)
* Low cost of purchase and maintenance (compared with almost any other V8 and especially TPI or EFI engines)
* Low fuel consumption (compared with 350 or non injected engines)
* Easy handling (easy to start, even idle, better temperament in dense traffic)
* New tech operation with a retro look (the TBI is easy to hide under an open * air filter and it the looks like a carb, Ford EFI and Chevy TPI lack that kind of retro look)
* The classical American V8 sound (not the same fire order as Ford but I personally prefer the sound of a Chevy)

What I lose:
* The power of the 350 (the 305 has a good bottom en torque potential but it will never be as powerful as a bigger engine)
* Some of the Chevy SB aftermarket (newer engines differs a bit from the classical Chevy SB, valve covers etc.)

It right now looks like I got more to win that to lose (this car is not meant for the track or anything like that). I will let you know when I finally get a chance to drive the car (and that will probably take another couple of years)

I can also report some of my initial findings regarding this engine because I am working on it right now:

It really looked like ##### when I picked it up, dirty, all black and with loads of wires, and other peripherals all over the engine. I unbolted everything at the front (serpentine belt, alternator, power steering pump, AC, water pump, brackets etc.). Then all stuff on the top (air cleaner, spacer ring etc.). Finally dismantled and documented the cable harness (I will rebuild a custom one not as tacky as the original one, it really has to be hidden as muck as possible not to ruin the retro look).

I now had a dirty engine but it finally started to look like a classical Chevy SB! Next step was cleaning it up and I now got a clean all black engine with a shiny aluminium gearbox. Next step will be the construction of a new wire harness...

I can already imagine this engine repainted, with high aluminium valve covers, an open K&N Air Cleaner, old race style alternator, water pump, pulley etc. I will get a really nice looking and sounding engine for much less that I budgeted for (and god knows that there is no problem to spend those money elsewhere in my Cobra project).

I plan to keep this engine more or less like it is until I have registered the car. It all depends on how it feels and performs if I am going to upgrade it or if I will swap in a 350 (carb or TBI). It once pulled a heavy truck in street races so I think it will be ok to start with. I also got ideas on how it could be upgraded with World Products SB-Chevy S/R Torquer Heads or Vortec ones, new intake manifold and a Holley 670 CFI replacement TBI, computer hacks and other small changes. I just can’t see how anyone could get more US V8 engine for less money... Hey I am really starting to like this ugly duckling of an engine!

/ Bowtie