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View Full Version : Door Hinges - Help/Advice Needed Please



KugaWestie
05-10-19, 07:04 PM
I need some help/advice please.

I am mid Classic Replica build (build thread running in build forum) and have started to look at the door hinges.

I may not use the "kit" supplied hinges as others have had poor experience with them, but as I already have them I want to see how they perform.

So today I started mocking them up.

Here is the hinge assembly laid on a door

https://i.imgur.com/qxwrb81.jpg


Now I am assuming that the hinge plate bolts to the chassis upright like so (drivers door)

https://i.imgur.com/db7K1Mg.jpg


Assuming that is correct, this is what it looks like in the car

https://i.imgur.com/Pb3bDMM.jpg


A shot looking at the hinge plate taken from inside the front wheel arch

https://i.imgur.com/3vnLqFV.jpg


The problem is I don't think the position of the door bars relative to the chassis and body is correct. I am pretty sure that the hinge bars need to come through the bodywork in a cut slot, but as it stands I cannot get the mounting plate any further towards the outside of the car as shown in the above photo

A few more photos

https://i.imgur.com/pvsb6XX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HkKtDmA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Pb3bDMM.jpg



It feels like I am missing something/not positioning things right.

Help please????

dinosoar
05-10-19, 07:37 PM
Try them on the other side of the upright.
Ie move them forwards.

KugaWestie
06-10-19, 09:13 AM
Try them on the other side of the upright.
Ie move them forwards.

It cant go the other side of the upright as there is a solid side/vertical steel panel welded on the outside of the upright which forms the footwell

drammyboy
06-10-19, 11:13 AM
Cut a little bit off the end of the plate and profile it to match the outer bodywork.

I've just completed my door hinges and positioned the pivot close to the outer bodyshell

KugaWestie
06-10-19, 12:48 PM
I am considering being a bit different and using a pair of chrome hinges on the outside of the body

Happy Jim
06-10-19, 01:14 PM
I am considering being a bit different and using a pair of chrome hinges on the outside of the body

Put down the beer....right now ;-)

KugaWestie
06-10-19, 06:58 PM
Put down the beer....right now ;-)

I have stepped away from the beer :shock:

I need some photos of people’s hinges I think.............

427jlc
07-10-19, 11:00 AM
Have you tried putting them to the right on the upright parallel to the outer body. The long bolt holes give you front to back movement?

Lee

KugaWestie
07-10-19, 11:08 AM
Have you tried putting them to the right on the upright parallel to the outer body. The long bolt holes give you front to back movement?

Lee

No I havent tried that, worth a go thanks.

Do I need to get the pivot point as close to the outside of the car/inside of the body as possible to stop the door binding on the leading edge when opening?
According to the instruction that I have they say to cut out two square holes in the "jamb" area of the body at the front of the door aperture to allow the hinges to pass through, meaning the need to move out towards the edge of the car from where they are mocked up in the photos.

skinnymathew
07-10-19, 01:40 PM
Are you sure the hinges need to move? They look right to me and I believe the cutouts are just to allow the hinge metalwork to swing into them when the door opens.

KevinW
07-10-19, 02:30 PM
what Matthew said.

Pic of hnges on my old Sumo if its any use.
I folded up some 0.5mm stainless sheet to go over the agricultural looking hinge arms.

Deck
08-10-19, 12:56 AM
I'll start at the end and work backwards while I try and remember...and i'm not saying I went about it the right way.
In the end, I cut 10mm off the led edge of the door, stuck a 3mm plastic sheet into the gap and filled the body up to match the line. As you can see from 7886, I should have gone a bit more (4mm?) as I've lost a bit of paint on the edge. I was mostly worried about where the door hit the body when fully open.

A lot depends on exactly where the body is attached to the chassis. Front to back alignment can be compensated for by opening out the kink in the hinge. I also bent the plate to move the mounting holes further forward but can't remember why exactly. I think it was to clear the internal curve of the bodyshell and buy me extra mils moving the pivot point out. I think you are correct in thinking this helps the most.

I had a quick look for the factory supplied hinges I used first but couldn't see them in the garage, they may be about but I'm not sure where. I got the hinges in the photos fabbed by a local engineering works. They matched the ones I made up. I welded a brace between the two supplied hinges to make them stronger but it wasn't enough. They would set up ok and then creep down over time. I oversized the holes in the hinges so I could adjust the door position and had 6mm pin holes in the hinges so once I had a final position I drilled through the plate and used pins to set the door positions after they were painted.

The mounting plate is behind some panels. i'll pop one off and take some more photos during the week and have a look to see if I have some pics from the time. I am pretty sure I added 25mm of metal to the inside edge of the mounting plate so I could push it out to meet the body.
(I'm starting to sweat going back over all this!?)

Given your bonnet hinge problem (no mounting bar), there should be a metal frame inside the doors with a plate between 3mm and 5mm thick in the flat part of the door, maybe 100mm square. I missed it with a couple of pilot holes in the beginning. There is another one at the back for the lock. I tapped the hinges M10 and they tighten up well.

With regards to the bodywork, to start it off I cut full slots, from the edge of the fibreglass right into the body, on the passenger side to allow me to check the travel of the hinge and how it worked. These patched up into squares ok and the door seal adds a bit of strength to the repair. Once I had it worked out I cut the squares in the drivers side. They were a nuisance though as when the hinge is on the door they barely fit through!

Also, I used a bolt that had enough smooth shaft to hit both side of the mounting plates. I think this took a lot of play out. There is a lot of weight levered off this and the top lip at the back of the door overlaps the body before the lock engages. I've still lost a bit of paint at this spot. Should have covered it with clear vinyl!

Clear as Mud? Let me know if you need any specific pics?
Good Luck!

Deck
08-10-19, 01:27 AM
Found these 2 pics that might add something... the small one is from 2004!?


and yes, that is bringing a tear to my eye

KugaWestie
08-10-19, 07:00 AM
A lot depends on exactly where the body is attached to the chassis. Front to back alignment can be compensated for by opening out the kink in the hinge. I also bent the plate to move the mounting holes further forward but can't remember why exactly. I think it was to clear the internal curve of the bodyshell and buy me extra mils moving the pivot point out. I think you are correct in thinking this helps the most.

The mounting plate is behind some panels. i'll pop one off and take some more photos during the week and have a look to see if I have some pics from the time. I am pretty sure I added 25mm of metal to the inside edge of the mounting plate so I could push it out to meet the body.


Good Luck!

Thanks for the detailed reply Deck, very helpful.

Looking at my backing plate it feels like it needs to be made wider to allow the pivot point to be pushed further away from the chassis tube, so if possible a photo of this would be very useful.

Deck
08-10-19, 09:33 PM
OK, I got stuck into the passenger side. its not exactly as I thought!?
There was definitely a piece added onto the plate. the weld has been ground down and the hole filled a bit but it has been edited. 115mm +/-1 between centre of lower pivot and centre of mounting bolt.

I'm surprised by the view from the bottom. its about 2 fingers away from the body at the bottom and 1 at the top. I'll take a look at the drivers side tomorrow to see if its the same. I wonder if this explains why I had to modify the door?
I spent a lot of time trying to get the door to sit flush in the aperture so it might be because of this. I don't think I would have thought to change the hinge shape once I had the door in place which might work?

My fibreglass parts were really poor and I can see yours are too. They looked like the maker took them out of the mould and laid them on their faces so they ended up concave! I have lovely maple floor boards bonded into them with shims to pop them back out to nearly flat (just don't look too close). I had to add a lot of filler to the front top area to match the scuttle and I filled out the return lip on the body in places so you couldn't see clear into the car from the outside (not sure if this matters now as the seal closes this off).

I think I got a load of plasticine and used it to hold the door it the best place and then tried to get the hinge to match up. I definitely attached the bits to the door first so something was fixed and then clamped the other part on to play about with the location. This is when you get squeaky cracky sounds pushing the hinge in and out of the holes in the body! Again, I can't say this was the best way...

I can't really remember the exact details I'm afraid. I do remember wishing I had marked the holes a bit better so both sides were the same when it came to getting the stainless one made. maybe start off with M6 screws in 10mm holes so you can adjust the door position easier... Once the hinge is taking the weight of the door the whole thing sags down so you need to be able to loosen the bolts, rotate the whole door up and tighten them again. Then when you let go it'll bounce down to about close enough.
OK, I'm no longer helping here am I??

The other thing that I should have done earlier in this process is mount the lock. This has a lifting effect on the back of the door once it engages. I did take the power file to the under side of the door lip to help with clearance too before the lock connects.

I'll post up the driver side once I have them.

KugaWestie
08-10-19, 09:46 PM
Hi Deck,

This is very helpful, thank you for taking the time and effort to take the photos.

You have said you have only just finally finished your car and now you are taking it apart to help me

drammyboy
09-10-19, 08:38 AM
May I suggest welding a small tab to the hinge plate.

A rubber bonnet bobbin can then be inserted acting as a bump stop
to limit the amount the door opens.

A nice soft full opening without damage to grp.

Deck
09-10-19, 04:07 PM
When I said finished...
its MOT'd, taxed and insured and ready for dry spells with no kids!

I got a lot of help from this forum over the years so I've no problem trying to help. I often make things more complicated than they need to be though!? I was lucky enough the Iain and Howard were both finishing their viper builds when I was starting so had fresh memories of the issues. Unfortunately I see their photo galleries are gone. Still, the collective knowledge and experience on here is a wonder of the modern age!

KugaWestie
09-10-19, 07:42 PM
Progress, its a good start!

https://youtu.be/HVZ53zgQCAE

https://youtu.be/cTpBDffDzGc

skinnymathew
09-10-19, 08:49 PM
Looks good.

Deck
14-10-19, 01:28 PM
Driver side pics as promised. I had a quick check and the bottom of the plate is about 10mm from the inside of the body but the top is almost touching. I can't get at it but I think the pivot side where the bolt is touches.

The video looks good. You can see the weld on this side between the bolt heads. I had to angle to whole plate the same as you.

I put up a picture here to show the gap between the front edge of the door and the body. it was 3mm originally but you could bend the hinge to make contact so I modified the doors/body. The paint also adds millimetres to both surfaces. i never really worked out how much though? i sanded most of the primers back off!

Good luck and keep up the good work!