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TurboFreak
24-02-21, 10:51 AM
What engine details do I put on IVA application:confused:

Took on unfinished build, sold as having SBC 307 engine with 5.5ltrs

Now the block id confirm it's a 307 which is a 5.0ltr. ( 200bhp )

I have engine certificate confirming it's a 1969 engine, so only visual inspection for emissions.

However engine has apparently been tuned with high lift cams and bored out to 5.5ltr, the purchase details in eBay listing where I purchased this unfinished project states this, but there is no written evidence.

If I show purchase information with engine certificate for IVA there is obviously conflicting information... does BHP get checked at IVA test?

I have 160mph speedo, VR rated tyres so put 150mph as cars top speed.

What's the best thing to do and keep IVA tester happy?

KevinW
24-02-21, 03:04 PM
AFAIK you just need to prove the age of the block, and state the bhp - the latter is not tested but it needs to look plausible.
Your other points on speedo and tyres - all good.

Peaches94
24-02-21, 07:08 PM
The IVA-1c form you complete doesn’t require the engine capacity but does need an estimate of maximum power and rpm that its achieved at. These were not tested in my IVA, there’s no rolling road test for instance. As said above, they need to look sensible though.

ref the engine capacity, I think you need to declare that on the registration post IVA, so it needs to be the actual capacity which sounds like 5500 cc in your case.
That said I did wonder how a 307 got upgraded to a 335 (5.5). My friend Google seems to think the biggest upgrade for a 307 is by stroking to 330 which is 5.4.

pevans
24-02-21, 07:44 PM
I have a 1969 engine and I just used all the standard figures from books and online documents for the standard engine. None of it was questioned or checked in any way. One thing to consider is the RPM max power because that is used for the noise test. You want a low RPM as you can if you are concerned about your exhaust.

Darnpistonbroke
24-02-21, 08:51 PM
1969 block is a no brainer. Visual smoke only.
If the block is a 307 cubic inch then just put that down. And add the stock horsepower that the engine came out of the factory with.
There are probably loads of stroked engines out there that are marked up as the original 350 but in reality they are 383. No one but no one will open up an engine to see exactly what it is. As long as the engine number relates to the original size if it was investigated then no problem.
Don’t over complicate the process by introducing curve balls. The less questions asked the better.

TurboFreak
25-02-21, 08:27 PM
Thanks for replies.

I have sent off application stating standard info for the engine, 307, 5ltr, 200bhp, max @ 5800 revs.

The engine is tuned, bored out to 5.48, Eldelbrock high lift cams, performance manifolds and filter etc, I fitted new upgraded Holley 4 barrel carb and upgraded water pump and complete cooling system due over heating problem.

I expect engine should be good for around 300bhp, I have no info on work done to heads.

Darnpistonbroke
25-02-21, 08:47 PM
To be honest that’s all you can do. I take it you didn’t rebuild the engine yourself? So you can’t quantify the work done?
I rebuilt my engine but this was in SVA days. It’s a SBC 350 2 bolt main. + .030” rebore. Standard but reconditioned crankshaft. Flat top pistons. Mildly lumpy camshaft. Small chambered, large valve heads. Dual plane Edelbrock Performer manifold and a Holley 600 cfm carb. It’s a beautifully balanced engine but the power output is a disappointing 260bhp. The car is no slouch and stands up to a fight but she’s no fire breathing dragon. But it’s fine. It makes the right noise and looks the part which is all I want.
These cars don’t exactly handle very nicely and having massive power is good pub talk but realistically, in these cars, where can you use it?
I may upgrade the carb at some point and possibly invest in new heads but that’s as far as I’ll take it with this engine. The little voice in my head though is saying, put a Ford Cleveland in it! One day, maybe!

TurboFreak
26-02-21, 10:51 AM
To be honest that’s all you can do. I take it you didn’t rebuild the engine yourself? So you can’t quantify the work done?
I rebuilt my engine but this was in SVA days. It’s a SBC 350 2 bolt main. + .030” rebore. Standard but reconditioned crankshaft. Flat top pistons. Mildly lumpy camshaft. Small chambered, large valve heads. Dual plane Edelbrock Performer manifold and a Holley 600 cfm carb. It’s a beautifully balanced engine but the power output is a disappointing 260bhp. The car is no slouch and stands up to a fight but she’s no fire breathing dragon. But it’s fine. It makes the right noise and looks the part which is all I want.
These cars don’t exactly handle very nicely and having massive power is good pub talk but realistically, in these cars, where can you use it?
I may upgrade the carb at some point and possibly invest in new heads but that’s as far as I’ll take it with this engine. The little voice in my head though is saying, put a Ford Cleveland in it! One day, maybe!

Yes I 100% agree, it's not about speed with these cars, it's the driving experience and the sound of the V8... awesome. Very similiar to the 3 TVRs I've owned tbh.

After 6 years ownership I just sold my 600bhp Nissan R35 GTR, 0-60 under 3 seconds and nearly 200mph... and I still got a clean licence, and that car did like being driven fast. :-)

I would have thought yours should be making nearer 300bhp, so can see why 260bhp might be disappointing, I will get mine set up on rolling road after IVA.

aksportscars
26-02-21, 11:06 AM
Thanks for replies.

I have sent off application stating standard info for the engine, 307, 5ltr, 200bhp, max @ 5800 revs.

The engine is tuned, bored out to 5.48, Eldelbrock high lift cams, performance manifolds and filter etc, I fitted new upgraded Holley 4 barrel carb and upgraded water pump and complete cooling system due over heating problem.

I expect engine should be good for around 300bhp, I have no info on work done to heads.

Hi,

You will probably fail on noise as having put down 5800 revs you will be tested at 3/4 revs (4350rpm) I know our AK cars are ok at about 3800rpm but only just. Take some extra baffles just in case.

Jon
AK

KevinW
26-02-21, 11:09 AM
...and repack the silencer with acoustifil - its great stuff.

Cobragreyhead
02-03-21, 08:06 AM
Hi,

You will probably fail on noise as having put down 5800 revs you will be tested at 3/4 revs (4350rpm) I know our AK cars are ok at about 3800rpm but only just. Take some extra baffles just in case.

Jon
AK

So do we use Max bhp OR max torque lbs/ft for the engine power figure?

aksportscars
02-03-21, 08:36 AM
Hi,

Use Max BHP, unless you really take the Pizz on the Max revs it will not get looked at. Years ago we used to put Max BHP at 4350rpm, when we got to the test station The figure had been altered by Swansea , you should put about 4850RPM this is acceptable.

Regards

jon
AK

TurboFreak
03-03-21, 06:37 PM
Been notified my application has been rejected?

They will be contacting me again with explanation (hopefully).

While advising me to reapply using the TAS system and as yet no information what they are unhappy with.

KevinW
03-03-21, 09:52 PM
Well, they do occasionally look at this forum.....!

Lloyd Barnes
04-03-21, 09:15 AM
ref the engine capacity, I think you need to declare that on the registration post IVA, so it needs to be the actual capacity which sounds like 5500 cc in your case.
That said I did wonder how a 307 got upgraded to a 335 (5.5). My friend Google seems to think the biggest upgrade for a 307 is by stroking to 330 which is 5.4.

Rare old motor, only produced for a few years.

You'd have to bore it around 125 thou to get to 335 which sounds unlikely? Possibly it has a crank out of a 350 it in with a light rebore. No idea if they fit but a 3.5" stroke sounds more plausible.

String
04-03-21, 09:58 AM
Seem to recall this being discussed previously? Would be interested if we can get to the bottom of it. Thanks.

TurboFreak
05-03-21, 11:58 AM
No details regarding rejection of application so chased today.

Couldn't explain why they hadn't sent me further details.

Reason for rejection although I ticked box this build was purchased as incomplete as running project they still require photos relating to stages of build process.

I don't really understand why they need this or if I have the required photo evidence from previous owner, chassis, body, suspension are all new with invoices so why are photos required for something that can be inspected during the IVA test?

If it's this difficult simply getting a test booked I doubt there's any chance of a pass first attempt

KugaWestie
05-03-21, 02:30 PM
No details regarding rejection of application so chased today.

Couldn't explain why they hadn't sent me further details.

Reason for rejection although I ticked box this build was purchased as incomplete as running project they still require photos relating to stages of build process.

I don't really understand why they need this or if I have the required photo evidence from previous owner, chassis, body, suspension are all new with invoices so why are photos required for something that can be inspected during the IVA test?

If it's this difficult simply getting a test booked I doubt there's any chance of a pass first attempt

I assume you also submitted an Amatuer Build declaration form when you did the IVA application?

If you have told them you have built the car then you have to back this up with build photos

KevinW
05-03-21, 04:25 PM
No details regarding rejection of application so chased today.

Couldn't explain why they hadn't sent me further details.

Reason for rejection although I ticked box this build was purchased as incomplete as running project they still require photos relating to stages of build process.

I don't really understand why they need this or if I have the required photo evidence from previous owner, chassis, body, suspension are all new with invoices so why are photos required for something that can be inspected during the IVA test?

If it's this difficult simply getting a test booked I doubt there's any chance of a pass first attempt

They want you to demonstrate that you built it in your crappy little garage surrounded by broken lilos and kids bikes.
And specifically, that you did not throw the towel in after the first disaster and hand it over to a professional, who then trailored it back round to your gaff ready for IVA.....coz then it aint 'Amateur Build regs' for the IVA test. Capeesh? :)

aaronjb
05-03-21, 05:21 PM
They want you to demonstrate that you built it in your crappy little garage surrounded by broken lilos and kids bikes.

Do you have a camera in my garage!? :lol:

KevinW
05-03-21, 06:00 PM
Do you have a camera in my garage!? :lol:

From what I've seen your garage, with its bench, lathe , pillar drill, bench grinder and lift runs the risk of looking like a pro-garage!
Suggest you make some strategic investments in authentic background scenery .... I might be able to help ;) :-P

TurboFreak
07-03-21, 05:16 PM
Right, new form completed with lots of old black and white photos from previous owner show donor vehicle and parts removed, new chassis being fitted with various old and new parts, body off and on... so they should be happy.

I have lost the postal address details for IVA application, does anyone know it please?

TurboFreak
07-03-21, 05:27 PM
OK... didn't send amateur build form last time, and they didn't ask for it this time.

However as mentioned on here it is required, and on that form there's an address, so will send all forms to that address (DVSA, PADLEY ROAD, SWANSEA, SA1 8AN)

TurboFreak
11-05-21, 09:58 PM
So revised top revs and engine tested at 3200, they are tested at 2/3 max. Result was 99.5

My problem is although they recognised it was a SBC engine built 1968-1973 and therefor not requiring emission test they still required a certificate confirming engine build date... why? (pre 1975 no emission test required)

The certificate had one wrong digit in engine number, a 6 instead of a 3... so they failed it.... even knowing it was a simple mistake by garage that issued the engines certificate, the certificate correctly recorded the cars VIN it was fitted into.

Does anyone know how I can obtain a new certificate for this engine as I don't really want to chance adjusting the one I have.. if you know what I mean.

kdavies3
12-05-21, 09:10 AM
Surely you can go back to the garage that issued it and ask them to correct it?

aaronjb
12-05-21, 09:39 AM
My problem is although they recognised it was a SBC engine built 1968-1973 and therefor not requiring emission test they still required a certificate confirming engine build date... why?

Because Mexico have been casting new "1970" Chevy 350 blocks for the last 50 years, and they were being passed off as old blocks to circumvent emissions requirements.. so now we are all (even those of us using a Ford engine that ceased production in 1976!) required to purchase a certificate of age. IIRC there's some bad blood about that whole period, so best to skip past it and accept our fate.

Back in 2015 the list of acceptable companies was:
Adrian Carroll ltd
Custom Power and Paint
Huddart Engines
Kitparts Direct
Knight Racing Services Ltd
Real Steel
Roadcraft UK Ltd
The British Motor Heritage Trust
The Vintage Hotrod Association
Tornado Sportscars Ltd

Of those, I don't believe Huddard is trading anymore, and I think we can add Anthony (Crendon) to the list now? Past threads indicate that the IVA test centre should be able to provide you with a list of acceptable sources of engine dating certificates.

TurboFreak
12-05-21, 08:29 PM
Surely you can go back to the garage that issued it and ask them to correct it?

If only life was that simple.

I bought this as an unfinished project about 18 months ago. The engine certificate was a major selling point as no emission problems, he had this done about 3 years ago by a local garage in Dorset...
I'm in West Sussex.:(

KevinW
12-05-21, 11:52 PM
If only life was that simple.

I bought this as an unfinished project about 18 months ago. The engine certificate was a major selling point as no emission problems, he had this done about 3 years ago by a local garage in Dorset...
I'm in West Sussex.:(

Just call Anthony at Abs Horsepower / Crendon Cars.
I am sure he will be able to sort you out, or advise best next steps.

Mark_Robinson
13-05-21, 08:30 AM
Knight racing certified my SBC350. It was all done via email and phone calls so i didn't need to transport the engine to them.

Cheers,
Mark

TurboFreak
14-05-21, 01:25 PM
Thanks to everyone who replied.

The garage that issued the engine certificate in Dorset is still trading, I managed to contact them explaining problem.

He like me thought IVA were being difficult but accepted his mistake on certificate.

He was very helpful and apologetic, he is sending me another certificate by post (as explained must be original) with correct details and todays date at no charge... so IVA should be happy :rolleyes:

aaronjb
14-05-21, 01:36 PM
Good luck!

You could always take them a gift (https://www.amazon.co.uk/SPF-Grumpy-Old-Man-Humbugs/dp/B0046GTJPQ) to see if that cheers them up and curries favour... ;) :lol:

TurboFreak
15-05-21, 11:44 AM
Good luck!

You could always take them a gift (https://www.amazon.co.uk/SPF-Grumpy-Old-Man-Humbugs/dp/B0046GTJPQ) to see if that cheers them up and curries favour... ;) :lol:

The two examiners really liked the car, making jokes about trying to fail it on a big list so I would sell it to him cheap!