View Full Version : Very OT: But for a Liberal he's not such a bad guy!

18-07-03, 02:41 PM
Mr. Tony Blair was in the States yesterday and spoke before Congress. It was one of the most moving speeches I've heard in recent times and will probably go down as one of the greatest. I never really thought much of him, he being a Liberal, but I've got to say that he's got a better grasp on what's going on internationally than most.

I was reminded of a speech made many years ago at a point of utter despair, after Dunkirk, when the UK was facing grave circumstances:

"The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science.

"Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, ‘This was their finest hour.´"

So I say to my fellow Americans, those comfortable Americans, who demand to know "Why me? Why us? And Why America?" Tony Blair answered:

"Because destiny put you in this place in history, in this moment in time, and the task is yours to do."

Say what you will, it was a great speech.

Sorry to post this here as I know it is off topic but where else could I get an audience of so many Brits?

Not looking to get into a political fencing match...just wanted to post my thoughts.

Thanks Tony,

18-07-03, 03:10 PM
You've only been sucked in by his false charm.We got sucked in and its cost us a fortune in taxation.
Bring back Maggie.
Steve G {-}
GE427-Rover 281ci.

18-07-03, 03:12 PM
I'm with you! Maggie was the best in recent history, although Tony did apologize for burning down the White House in 1812.


18-07-03, 03:13 PM
Yes bring back Maggie. I'd love to be paying 15% interest
on my mortgage again ;) ;) ;) ;)


18-07-03, 03:22 PM
I bet my bottom dollar that he didn't write the speech himself.

Some spin doctor would have performed that function for him, so no credit for the bloke himself, just a puppet.

Bring back spitting image I say!!!

18-07-03, 03:35 PM
Col, you're inferring that New Labour's and by association, Tone's policies have had something to do with driving down interest rates in the UK. This is not true. America has driven down interest rates internationally. British interest rates are the highest in the developed world although of course they are historically low. No, Tone's mob have saddled us with interest rates higher than our competitors and will cause the gap to widen by the increased borrowing he has to get Gordon to do to fund failed, outdated policies, the NHS and asylum seekers etc, etc.:) x(

19-07-03, 09:16 PM
Contrary Mary

WoW Roscoe I like this one!!! Mr New Labour Teflon Tony & his bunch of wan#ers, moves me like a dose of Andrews Liver Salts!!!

He is a lying sweet talking funny grin man equal to Hitler. Why we and yourselves ever bothered to fight the second World War I don't know!! We are now controlled by Europe (Germany) without a single soldier. He fools most of the people all of the time including the idiots who voted him in!

We face a situation now in this country where we have NO meat industry, transport, fishing, Welfare State, operation waiting lists as long as your arm, Underground etc, the man and his wife are sycotic! The woman who has not been voted in Government but holds meetings in number 10 making desiccations that affect us all!

This small Island is sinking under the weight of Asylum Seekers them never having paid a penny to-wards it welfare!! As I have said before, there is a sign post at Calais pointing in our direction "Treasure Island this way" No other country in Europe or America will tolerate them, only to happy for them to cross that 22 miles of water. I could go on!!!:} :} :} :} The man & his wife has brought this country to its knees need I say more Eric. {-} {-} {-} {-} {-}

19-07-03, 09:23 PM
Contrary Mary

Robert, I bet that spin Dr is now dead, having committed suicide!!! Eric. x(

20-07-03, 09:39 PM
So i take it that you will be voting for tony at the next general election then,osgood!

You have to admit though mate ,he does have a rather dashing british smile!

Does anybody remember the pop group called the spin doctors?
they brought out rather a catchy number called the groovy train ,i think!!!!!!!!!?????????

21-07-03, 08:23 AM
Contrary Mary

Yes Kev Pigs might fly!!! Talking of groups do you remember the lot called Sparks, the piano player looked just like Hitler; dead ringer I thought for our second home grown Messiah Eric :7 :tu

Craig Baker
21-07-03, 09:44 AM
Spin Doctors
Pocket Full Of Kryptonite---1991
This is the debut release that made the Spin Doctors big. Most people only know the hits off the album, "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" and "Two Princes", but listening to the album it is clear they aren't the best songs. The album starts with "Jimmy Olsen's Blues", which is a really catchy tune and kind of the albums title track. Next the album goes into "What Time Is It?" which is one of the best songs on the album. The album ends with "Shinbone Alley/Hard To Exist" which is one of the best things the Spin Doctors have done. The only song on here that doesn't hold my attention like the others is "Refrigerator Car".

:tu :tu :tu :tu

Tony's fav band.?????????????????

21-07-03, 03:34 PM
OOOHHHHH........CAN............WORMS..........I'm off......

Kevin W
21-07-03, 06:04 PM
Bl**dy hell contrary mary< it sounds like you've been reading the Daily Mail/Express. We need MORE asylum seekers, NOT LESS. They do the crap jobs that English people won't do, and they help stimulate our economy with more new businesses. Ofcourse organised crime must be kept out, but contrary to what the above tabloids would say many of these people are highly intelligent well educated decent individuals _ would you be saying the same thing if this was 1938 and we had Jewish migrants wanting to save their skins in this country having been hurded on by others (in Euroland)? We are known as a decent tolerant country with one of the best economies in Europe. If properly managed those granted asylum/migrant status are an economic opportunuty this country has often benefitted from (e.g. Jewish/Asian East-end rag trade) So long as migrants are willing to learn/speak English, work and pay taxes, there's plenty of room - they are a minute proportion of our population. There are far more white Lazy English people cheating the benefits system - lets string them up first before we send Johnny Foreigner back on a BA flight to torture/death.

I'm no Blairite - this weekends sad news has filled me with absolute disgust at No. 10. But please also remember it was the Tories who decimated public services - ask anyone at the sharp end. Blair & Co just picked up the tab.

Rant over

Kevin W.

21-07-03, 06:40 PM
Hi Kevin, six years since Tone got in ... bit long now to be still blaming the Tories for the state of the country. And no mention of the sound economy the Tories left behind. The jobs that asylum seekers/immigrants do? I thought they all lived on handouts! They keep wages down in the country, create a self perpetuating sub-class and keep industry from investing in new more efficient equipment, to say nothing of creating a divided country which in years to come will cause much strife.x(

21-07-03, 06:46 PM
Blair I can sum him up in 1 word


I do not care what anyone says or thinks, In britain we are being creamed, and most of that comes from the labor goverment. The trouble is who will replace them, because they need replacing.

And to Roscoe I understand you can only go by what you read in the newspapers, and as we all know dont believe everything you read.

We live in Rip Off Britain.


21-07-03, 09:00 PM
Contrary Mary

Kevin, the first question I would put too you is, what bl##dy planet are you living on!!!!???? Most certainly not on this one with the rest of us! Enriching the economy eeh well I don't think so. They are all claiming top benefits to which they have never contributed a penny too, yes thats right chap you NHS contributions & Blair/ Brown taxes which this government has imposed on you.

Why must we keep black crime out of the equation then Kevin, after all it represents 85% of crime today in this country re the crap that has been let in!

We are not in 1938 Kevin, just look around you matey and understand what is going on in this supposedly country of ours. Do you think we can really get a statue of Daimler Taylor and Steven Lawrence up there with Nelson on the one column?? The Lawrence's got a million pound each, and an OBE, and just like all ethnics could not stop rowing over the money and got divorced. What a bloody government sham! If they were White and English and suffered the same dilemma we would here no more. But still 3 years on its still being rammed down our throats. Who's bl##dy country is this supposed to be anyway?

Learn our language and pay taxes Kevin; well if they are Lucky enough to take up our language they do nothing but slag us off, having accepted all the free non contributory hand outs. Did you not no on entry to this country which is encourage by all Europe they throw there identity away if they have any, so as to benefit more of your contributions Kevin!! Read a little about Dr Hook Fins park Mossc, then you will learn something to your advantage.

Yes maybe fat lazy English bastards, but at leased its their country, having contributed to our welfare state together with their Father and Grandfather and there children whom are paying now.

A colleague of mine has recently told me that Germany has rounded up all the so called Asylum seekers from Afghanistan an quietly told them okay chaps, you are under no threat now, theres the plane get on the basted! They shipped the lot out, why is it this country stands for the 3 card trick and still does not learn & goes back for more sh#t!!!?

The rag trade, well let me enlighten you; a factory inspectors visit to a very large international company in Park Royal, of that description, who employs such labor put a question to the shop Foreman re the toilet facilities there. The Foreman beaconed him outside in the yard, Who needs more toilets when these bastards crap and urinate up the wall!!!

Nobody picked up the tab Kevin, this shower of sh#t have been in for eight years and still things get worse; allowing nurses into this country to work with full blown aids, but to mention just one instance; wake up chap your living in a dream world not reality, how big is this country, how many more can we take before it sinks!!!Eric :} :} :} :} {-} {-} {-} P/S read about Americas Muslim Dilemma before shooting off your mouth!!!

Kevin W
22-07-03, 03:57 PM
Eric et al,

perhaps I should start with an apology - this whole topic is a very sensitive area for everyone and I apologise for my last email being inflammatory. Sorry.

I'll reply to the points rasid when I have more time.


22-07-03, 04:13 PM
some very excited people here so I'll just pour some more petrol on...
:) :)

I would have to agree with Kevin on many points and since I'm hoping to be an immigrant to the US shortly (even if only temporarily) I hope that some short sighted, self-protectionist #######s don't look at me as a lazy, benefit grabbing (if there were any to grab), job stealing foreigner.

<<deleted angry rant at someone aboves rather bigoted view-point>>

Stuart (only a few days till no cobra :-( )

22-07-03, 04:18 PM
oh yes back to the off-topic topic....

definitely don't like Alistair Campbell (do we not have the chance to NOT vote for him too?)

Kevin W
22-07-03, 06:51 PM
Hi Trigger, Don;t get me wrong, I'm not blaming the tories for the state of the country, in fact I think overall its slowly improving slightly. anyway Blair's a Tory, he nicked Major's policies didnt he? (I'm joking). IMHO the tories left a sound economy, and by and large Brown has managed it well. Hopefully boom and bust days are over. True, Brown prefers a stealth tax to a direct tax, but all goverments put up taxes, and they take from one hand and give with the other. How many of us on this forum with kids really need child benefit, but we all have it for what is ultimately a lifestyle choice.

OK asylum seekers: I was trying to put a slightly different perspective on that reported by the tabloids. I maybe wrong, but I thought they have very limited ability to gain handouts until their case has been prooved, so the blackmarket thrives because some of these people have no means of supporting themselves. I don't beleive the majority become Midddle Eastern versions of Jim Royal - I think they'll look for work or create it. My principal concern on this topic is the mismanagement and understaffing involved so people with genuine cases are being repatriated while criminal/illegal elements remain and 'dissappear' with forged documents.

Yep, its a sensitive issue when these people are put into low grade housing (which no UK resident is willing to occuppy) and which are close to very poor neighbourhoods - lack of education, mistrust of other cultures : recipe for disaster, I agree. The system needs to process these people faster and fairer.

Don't agree with your industry argument - industry has a choice, and must take responsibility for those choices. Unfortunately I think we sometimes over-educate our own to expect more than they can demand from their meagre talents, whereas migrants will step into the low paid breach. I'd argue that many low pay rates are governed by what the public sector pays directly or by subcontracting (cleaners ancillary workers etc) in order to provide value for money for the tax payer.


btw I do not support any political party - they're all bad, so I'm a tactical floating voter looking for 'least bad'.

Kevin W
22-07-03, 06:59 PM
Campbell ? - shoot him, along with all the other unelected publicists.

Does that make everyone happy?


22-07-03, 08:09 PM
Contrary Mary

Kevin its not sensitive for me old boy, and there is no need for you to apologize for your misguided comments. Let me start by asking when was the referendum held in this country for a multi racial society?

I have no idea what ET Al means, we are in England Kevin please speak the language please. Don't forget the old saying when in Rome live as the Romans do, there seems to be a lot of invaders that have forgotten that! Yes Kevin reply to comments any time you wish and I will answer them at any level you see fit.

I have never had a problem with race, colour or creed, but just remember who's bl##dy country this is and how many more low life we can take on board before the raft sinks?:} :} :} {-} {-} {-} Eric.

22-07-03, 08:33 PM
I think you got the wrong forum - surely you meant to be writing this #### on the BNP one?


22-07-03, 09:08 PM
Contrary Mary

Stuart, you are a little Tosser!!! I shall be glad to see the back of you chap with your Holier than thou attitude. Another one fleeing from the sinking ship under the weight of Muslim pressure assisted by our wonderful government. Try putting your views to the American market, they will swallow you up chap and best of luck{-}

23-07-03, 08:33 AM
Thanks for that insightful and educated reply! I thought I'd reply with something equally childish for when you pull your head out of your ar$e. You really are making yourself look as ridiculous as the wheelarches of your 'car'.
Not fleeing a sinking ship, just have an oportunity to experience other cultures - maybe you should try it some time, you might be surprised!!


23-07-03, 08:34 AM
Contrary Mary

Hi Trigg, the barbie seems to have died down a little and I still have more bangers to cook! I can agree and relate to all your comments. I seem to remember when I was a young lad listening to Enoch Powell, he made much the same comments; something about the streets running with blood. Well I can safely say he hit the nail right on the head! Its is happening right now.

I learn this morning on the news that you can actually apply for Asylum in this country with the only one qualification of having full blown Aids!!

Most of these invaders are under no political threat at all in there own country. I think we are the ones under threat right now from our own elected Government actions!

For example I not we have been moved to the back page by our administrator I see, for fear of upsetting the minority. Got something to say I quote; say it on the Cobra Club Forum MMMmmmmmmmm.

This subject was started by Roscoe who is outside these waters, the man is obviously of reasonable intelligence but even he has been taken in by laughing boy Tone.

:} {-} Eric

23-07-03, 08:36 AM


23-07-03, 08:58 AM
Contrary Mary

Stuart, yes okay have a pop at my car by all means chap, is this not we are talking about here, free speech & choice. These luxuries will soon be gone in this country; we will soon be going about our daily business dressed in a Turban chanting the Muslim way!

> The opportunity to experience other cultures< Don't bother going to the States then Stuart, stay at home there are more than enough here!

Yes Stuart there are three basic types of behavior, Parent, Adult and a child; and yes of course your right Stuart, yours is the latter.

Okay so you don't like my Marmite arches, some love it some hate it; but at least I have the capability to make such a modification!! I wish I could stick my head up my arse Stuart, then I would not have to listen to do-goodies like yourself regards Eric. :)

23-07-03, 09:18 AM
Eric, Free speech totally agree - you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I to mine, and no-one should try to stop either of us so long as it doesn't harm anyone (incidently, back to the topic, another reason for disliking tone's crones). :)
I think you must be the first person ever to call me a do-gooder (not the first to call me a to$$er I'm sure!!) - since I don't often do much good, I shall take it as a compliment!! :) {-}


PS Would you believe I don't have massively strong views on any of these points - just like a good arguement - reel them in!! {-} {-}

23-07-03, 05:55 PM
Contrary Mary

Okay then Stuart, debate and rant over ;-) don't take the To££er bit too literally, if I have offended then I apologize.

It may be of interest that my favorite subject is being debated on Beebe One tonight. I don't know how I am going to contain myself!

Asylum: You The Judge 8:00pm

Asylum Panorama Special 9:00pm

Asylum Discussion live debate 10:35pm

Regards Eric.


Kevin W
23-07-03, 05:57 PM
Crikey, this could run and run....


et al = and all, everyone else. - thought it was fairly common abbreviation like e.g., i.e.

I suspect Robert has moved this topic here because it hasnt anything to do with Cobras.

Anyway, onto the favoured topic:

I work with lots of people from lost of differnt backgrounds, cultures, classes and ethnicity, but most are middle class white and English. Occassionally some have been assylum seekers/refugee status, although I don;t deal with their personal problems or backgrounds. One guy (19 year old) had escaped from a prison camp, some of his friends were shot and killed during the escape and he managed to get to this country to seek refuge. Another of my colleagues had to deal with a clear case of PSD after a guy arrived who had had had his souls and body whipped with rubber tubing.

Most people are happy that this country can provide a sanctuary for cases like this. But as I said before, illegal people trafficing, the blackmarket in illegel work and forged documents ete etc needs to be dealt with. And genuine cases dealt with sympathetically and bogus cases repatriated. Ofcourse noone voted for a multiracial society, but its a fact of life being part of an international economy with a mobile workforce. There isnt a single country which can affford to stop migrants becomign aprt of the workforce. But thats not the same issue as seeking assylum.

Eric, are you living close to a refugee centre or do you have a local immigrant community that leads to the above comments? It seems extraordinary that your prepared to air these views on an open forum.

Anyway, if I can find time to gather some facts I'll reply to further to some of your comments shortly.


23-07-03, 07:04 PM
Tony Blair is the essence of mediocrity, with his tongue stuffed so far up Georges bottom it’s outstanding. How anybody can defend his moronic short-sighted posturing, let alone support it, is beyond me.

Up the Empire!

Mclaren (He of the Chest Wig Charriot)

23-07-03, 08:24 PM
Contrary Mary

Okay Kevin, got the massage. The topic has been moved for reasons you have described, but making it politically correct, the forum does not insist we talk about Cobras only!

Yes I agree at 58 years of age there are some persecutions in various countries, your tenacity toward keeping this to a debate and not a rant I admire, but you see my point obviously; as an example look at the coverage of this topic tonight on BBC1 from 8pm! This I would have thought would show that there is serious threat to our heritage and political and religious believes; and at last people are beginning to wake up to this serious invasion.

Myself, in all sorts of job description have worked with many different subjects in my time, and do not have a problem with that. I am looking at the current government trend & how it will affect my life and my children and there off springs in years to come.

We cant provide a sanctuary for all, we are only a small Island and things have got to breaking point as far as I am concerned. Ask Anne Whitcomb, she I am sure will straighten you out as to the real facts re the subject we are talking about.

No Kevin I don't live next to a refugee camp but I do live in High Wycombe Bucks, which they now call High Woggham!! My local Doctor's Surgery is invaded with calls when making an appointment for an all white day, yes it is that bad. Having caught a disease which is Eastern, many years ago, called Sarcoidissis & left me with pulmonary fibrosis, I don't wish to share a waiting room with a load of coughing spitting Pakistanis or Asian's thank you!!

Kevin there is nothing extraordinary about it, I am English living in a Democratic society, or I thought, with the right of free speech or so I thought; what is the problem with that!? I will and have the right to air my view if I so desire, and will continue to do so as and when the occasion rears its ugly head! Regards Eric

23-07-03, 08:33 PM
Contrary Mary

Could not agree more mate, and I am supposed to be in the minority!!! I dont f#cking think so. Eric :tu

23-07-03, 10:31 PM
Eric et al

The Island we call England, Great Britain, Old Blighty, whatever is and always has been a multi-racial society.

This is not a new phenomenon. This has been happening since day dot. The immigrant workers (and yes I can trace my family tree back to an immigrant worker during the Huguenot persecution) have provided a wealth of experience, talent and knowledge into the UK.

Did you know that it was the Dutch that actually started the Bank of England.

After the War workers from the Caribbean staffed the health service and the transport system, invariably starting at the bottom with work that nobody else was prepared to do. Asian workers likewise went to northern cities in decline, took up work in industries such as textile production that were already low paid and where the locals were already leaving in despair for the future.

These immigrants were invariably of working age. They came and put in long hours and, in the process, put in a great deal more money to the Treasury kitty than they got out. It also remains the case that more people leave the country than come in. And those that enter, come here to work. By contrast Britain exports the economically inactive. Hundreds of thousand of pensioners head out for countries such as Spain for the winter, (to cut down on their central heating bills).

In 1835 after the collapse of Poland and part absorption by Russia Pale of Settlements were created where Jews were confined. Jews were barred from professions, trades etc. and living conditions became very difficult. On 13 March 1881 Tsar Alexander II was assassinated. This was followed by vicious pogroms against the Jewish people. Thousands were murdered. In the period 1881-1882 alone 225,000 Jewish families fled Russia. Pogroms continued culminating in the worst at Kishinev on 6 April 1903.

The Jewish population in Britain in 1882 was 46,000. By 1914 it had increased to 300,000. The Jewish Establishment made up of the Spanish and Portuguese Jews and Ashkenazi Jews of largely Dutch origins were horrified by the influx.

Personally, I don't think immigration is the issue, what is the issue is both the way the system works, and the obviously the way the system fails constantly.

The ease of getting work permits when applications have been rejected and the ease of being able to disappear within the UK is both amazing and worrying.

24-07-03, 08:44 AM
I think we'll just agree to disagree and stop at that...

Stuart :Y

25-07-03, 09:20 AM
Rob, ET AL abbrev: et alibi (L), and elsewhere; ET ALILI, ALIA or ALIA (L), and other (people and things).

Yes I see it Rob, but not a abbreviation I am familiar with or quite see the connection, thats what comes from not having an University or Public School education, but you live and learn I suppose.

And yes I am only too well aware we were all black at on stage migrating from central Africa; long before the Earths plates started shifting our respective countries around with stretches of water in-between.

Yes we've been invaded by the Vikings, Danes, Romans, Normans etc so I suppose in that light we are a mixed race, much like the Americans but to a lesser degree. They tell me Scotch men were only Irish men that could swim! Yes having watch 6 hours of BBC1 A Warning from History I am well aware of the persecution the Nazis inflicted on the Jews (ethnic Cleansing).

My own Sir name indicates French weavers (OOPS sorry Andy!!) which would tie up with my Great Great Grandfather owning a Die works somewhere up top many years ago, and before that its German coming from the name RAGNAR. But its 2003 and I am referring to the current situation of 85,865 applications for Asylum last year alone all claiming persecution!; 10% were allowed to stay another 10% returned from whence they came, the others are still here having disappeared into the sunset!! This has been happening for years and if not nipped in the bud will continue. We suffer persecution here from our own Government and Andy, but I am not planning to catch a container ship taking a trip across Europe illegally, only to find at my destination I would be kicked right back to dear old Bligh-ty or shot at dawn! Yes your right the system is all to cock and we are a soft touch. Watching Panorama program yesterday Turkish illegally immigrants said just that. The program before that highlighted four cases and all the phone in votes over whelming voted too refuse Asylum in every case, so I in that light am not on my own re public opinion to this current influx.

Yes its more than worrying Robert the ease with which these people can obtain NHS cards with proper numbers, and not just on at a time!! Forged papers of one sort or another; multiple applications by the same person. The fraud is rife with these people in all hand out sectors and in my opinion should be brought into check without delay before its to late.

Knowing how a certain section of these immigrants breed, the next Government stance will be to tell you how many children you can have just like Japan. As I have said we are the only country in the world that stand for the third card trick. Being highly populated considering the small size of this island; how many more can we take on board do you suppose? Half the population of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Iraqi, Turkey, Africa and so on. Your a traveled man Rob, try getting away with it in the States or any country in Europe. Eric.

x( :Y

Kevin W
01-08-03, 05:25 PM
OK, was that directed at me Mr Mclaren?

For the record I don;t support Tony Blair, or any other politician.

Kevin W.

Kevin W
01-08-03, 06:24 PM
right, here we go, seconds out, round two...............

Seems to me that Robert made a number of points very similar to what I was saying earlier, but in a far better manner, backed up with some proper facts. As for High Wycombe, now I can start to understand where you're coming from Eric. But I;d maintain that its case of mismanagment and underfunding, - a system in crisis, whether it be the immigration authority or local councils. After all, if you compare this with something like the Hillsborough disaster, you woudnt blame the spectators for crushing their fellow fans in the rush to get to safety would you, you look at the police and the FA having messed up managerially. I think regardless of who's in power, none of them want to commit proper resources and effort to managing the issue, and therein lies the real problem.

Asylum is a very important issue judging from the BBC's recemt prog.s. (But I don;t think this should be confused with legitamate immigration). I watched most of the Beeb's progs on this as well, and I thought it was pretty poorly put together - I was expecting something much better from the world's highest quality broadcaster. I may have missed it, but it seemed to me that the whole evening was based largely on anecdotal stories, including the Panorama programme. I was waiting to be faced with some good quality, reliable statistical evidence about the true burden the asylum seeker population really places on our society, whether its significantly large or small. I was dissappointed with whole thing, as I didnt think it really contributed to the debate one way or the other. Seemed to me it was just under-informative 'entertainment' - I saw a lot of people with entrenched positions on both sides of the argument, and not much in between.

Phone in telephone poles are subject to huge biases, even if the technology won;t let you vote twice - because only the people with very strong views tend to vote, and whichever way the verdict falls, they cannot be classed as representative of the population as a whole. If the BBC had bothered to employ a market research company which selects its respondents across all social groups etc then a far more convincing and informative programme could have been made. Not much better overall than the so called documentaries that Trevor McDonald fronts.

Eric, for the record, no public school influence, I'm 100% product of a no frills 'bog standard' comp.based education, with parents having left school at 15 and 16 respectively. But I do work in Elec. Engineering at a University. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive Osgood is originally a pre-1066 name, derived from a name related to a Norse God, I think. Unfortunately my own lineage can only be traced back to ordinary agricultural workers ~200 years ago based in East Anglia, oh, + 1/8th Jewish, if a 1/16th on both sides adds up, so similar blood line to Bernard Manning!

I think I'm all done on this now, will have to meet you for a pint sometime Eric, when I get the damned sumo on the road.


Kevin W

ps I'm not Andy Wilson or whatever his name was, wish I had his cash, and am too ignorant to forge even the simplest fruadulent email. I think it was a wind up.

01-08-03, 06:42 PM

Historically, the migration of workers into the UK has been carefully managed, however in the past decade or so, this has not been the case.

I think that the problem is not that we have immigrants, as that is good for the country as it brings new skills and additional cultural influence into the country.

Personally, I think the issue is two fold, one is a problem of mismanagement of the actual process, and the other problem is the lack of integration of the immigrants into OUR society.

We cannot bow down to immigrants wishes and wants all the time, they have chosen to come to the UK, therefore THEY should integrate into our society. I fully realise that there is always some give and take, however we are being mandated to by the soft liberal element within our policy making divisions in the government.

01-08-03, 08:22 PM
Contrary Mary

Kevin my boy, I think I will throw the towel in on this one for now, as I have said quite enough on the subject to last a life time!

Kevin don't start me on football either, as I have pretty positive views on that subject as well, I think its my age!!

Kevin what leads you to believe Osgood is my Sir name? Must say you may very well be right on the background though, never had the need really to check on that one.

Yes a pint or two I will hold you to that one Kevin. I like your style!

Yes Andy of the Wilson alias, very long story Kevin when we have that pint and you have a day to spare I will enlighten you! The subject seems to have gone to ground for now, regards Eric

:tu :) ;-)