Dipstick/sump mismatch?

[Loco]

Morning all,
Trying to put fluids into the engine and I've hit yet another stumbling block. I put 4 litres of oil into the engine (which was totally dry), but checking the dipstick, it's above the maximum oil level already, suggesting a sump/dipstick mismatch. I'm expecting to put over 5 litres in.

I believe the sump is from a range-rover: when it was being built, the engineer gave me a call and asked whether I'd prefer to go for one over a standard SD1 sump, said I get a bit more capacity and better engine/ground clearance as the SD1 sump drops down. I believe he'd asked as I had send them an SD1 front cover to go on it, and he was checking whether I'd have clearance for the RR sump.

When I phoned up rimmer bros for a dipstick, I gave the engine number (it's a 4.6 coscast block) which I thought was used in the range rovers only, so assumed that would be the correct dipstick to have with the sump. Apparently this isn't the case - any ideas?!

Also - the dipstick is very tall and I might have clearance issues with the bonnet. Might have to trip equal amounts from the tip of the dipstick and the tube, but I'll tackle this problem next!

Irritating as I wanted to get the engine fired up today.

[robinj66]

The dipstick has to be paired with the sump (not the block).

The dipstick tube should come out of the block and you can then shorten the bottom end

HTH

[russell_ram2]

Dipsticks are not 'paired to sump design' on most engine designs - this is a common mis-conception. If the dipstick mounts through the block (like it does on a Rover) then it sets the oil level relative to block bottom face - the sump merely catches the oil! it doesn't matter what sump you fit - it will just catch more or less oil before it reaches level on the dipstick. What doe matter is that you have the correct dipstick to match the dipstick tube you have. There are several height for Rover - if you told Rimmer you had a late model engine, they'll have probably sold you a 38A type stcik - that won't work with an SD1 tube etc etc. Shortening the tube won't make any difference on a Rover either - you actually need to move the position of the sealing ring where it sits on the block face (or shorten the top if it's too high).

Picture of the stick would help.

fyi if you do have an early RR/Disco sump then it should, as you have said, hold about 5.5L of oil.

Russ

[Loco]

Thanks, russ. I actually bought a dipstick and tube set from rimmer bros, quoting the block number, so I was pretty confident it was the right one. Totally makes sense about the sump design being irrelevant. I'll get a pic of both when I go to the garage. With a little luck, I'll be able to find the receipt and get the model number of the tube/stick.

[Loco]

Ok - here are the pics. Found the sleeve of the dipstick, and it's one of these:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-ERR4550
s
P3252091.jpegP3252092.jpegP3252093.jpeg

Looks about right - I can only think the stick is too long. Unfortunately, not found the packaging for that, or Rimmer's receipt!

What do you think?

Actually, just had a thought - the car's on jack stands and leaning backwards just slightly. There's a chance it could just be the angle of the thing!

[craggle]

That does look like the correct tube and dipstick to fit a 4.6 Range Rover engine. I have fitted a dipstick and tube to one today oddly enough.
The P-clip on the tube should screw to the bottom side of the rocker cover by the way and make the tube bend forwards. Make sure the collar on the tube is pressed down tight to the body and apply some sealer to the tube before pushing it into the block.

If that reads over full I would be tempted to believe the dipstick but even the smaller SD1 sump should hold more than 4 litres I think?

Craig.

[russell_ram2]

I agree, they definately look like 38A parts. As you say, they are very tall (because the engine is deep inside a 38A front end). I'd have gone for Defender V8 parts if you couldn't get SD1, much easier to shorten the stick top for bonnet clearance if required.

John Craddock could help you find a different matching pair.

John Craddock LTD

You have the correct tube for the 38A stick as the top is different on the older types. However, if you think the parts are right (as in correctly manufactured) then as Craig says the level should be correct.

[Loco]

Hi all,
OK - I put the car back on the ground (was up on axle stands) to see if that changed the angle of the car and hence the oil level. No joy. Still only got 4 litres in there and it's maybe 3/4 inch above the max level. Obviously it's going to drop down a bit when the pump and tappets are filled, but even so, it seems high. I asked RPI, and got this back:

"Buying Engine parts from Rimmer can be dangerouse and bad for your health

No way can they offer a dipstick that truly represent all engine varints

The dipstick is Ok but you will neeed to self calibrate it.

Drain the system and fill with 6 litres

Leave it one hour (after running it to warm temp.)

Then mark the dipstick at the level you find he Oil at

This will be best Oil level for 99% of type."


...what you recon?!

[russell_ram2]

I can't believe that response - sorry but it is just total tosh. Think we've all agreed already agreed that oil level relative to crank centereline/block lower face is what is important. That is independent of oil volume on it's own, you need sump geometry. you don't want to run too high level for many reasons, not least of which is risk of breaking the crank.

I have a block and various sumps and matched stick and tube sets in the garage. I can do a few experiments / pictures / measurement for you if you can wait till the weekend.

Russ

[craggle]

I too can't believe they suggested that, The SD1 sump is a lot smaller than a Range Rover one so put 6 litres in an SD1 sump and the crank will likely be beating it to a throth.

I have a 4.6 engine with a matching dipstick and tube in the shed at the minute ready to go in a Land Rover this weekend. I can measure the distance from the block mating face to the full mark if you like and it that matches the dipstick and tube you have, your oil level will be correct when full to the full mark.

Craig.