anyone had trouble with Roger from Shinybitz? - please ...

[nicklouse10]

Has anyone ever had any trouble with buying stuff from Roger at Shinybits?

He was recommended to me by a member on this site and I have had nothing but grief from shinybitz.

here is the problem;

I ordered a set of manifolds (mild steel) for my ford V6 to fit sidepipes, was told it was no problem and it would only take a few days to make them, the price was £168.
I sent of a cheque that was cashed promptly, I was then told that he didn’t have the plan for the flanges and I would have to take a 'rubbing' from my original manifold!

I use my cobra as a daily driver so this was a big inconvenience, but I decided to go ahead and do it anyway, I told roger I couldn’t have my car off the road for any length of time, he said this was no problem and once he got the ‘rubbings’ he could have the manifolds to me within 3 days.

Upon receipt of the manifolds I waited 2 days then mailed Roger who now told me there is a 28 day wait on getting the flanges cut!!!
I was promised a free set of gaskets for my inconvenience, which I never received.
31 days later I finally got the manifolds, and they didn’t look right.
I took them to no fewer than 5 manifold specialists who all told me the same story, here are a few quotes;

“You paid how much?…for THOSE?? I would make whoever made them eat them”
“They will crack around that weld there before too long” (this was said to me by 3 of the 5 specialists about the same weld on one of the flanges)
“ Not bad for your first attempt, but they are unusable”
“ I have seen worse but they are pretty bad”
I got the same story from all the places I went, I told Roger but he said it’s impossible to tell if they are any good of not until they are bolted to the car.

Also, I specified my sidepipe collectors have an outside diameter of 54 mm, but the manifolds’ secondary down pipe has an OSD of much less (42mm), so they wont fit anyway. I planned to use flexi tubing to connect the manifolds to the sidepipes, so surely they need to have the same OSD so that the flexi will slide over both ends and be secured by a clamp.
Roger says the 42mm OSD ones he has sent are the correct size (although they are more than a centimetre smaller than the collectors!) and I have bought the wrong flexi tube ???????

The secondary pipe is more than ¾ blocked where the 2 branches either side join it as they have not been mitred at the correct angle and are sticking way out into the centre of the down pipe

The tubing used to construct the manifolds has a smaller bore than the flanges thus creating a lip of several mm on the inside of every flange.

I have asked for a refund and was offered a discount of 10% for my inconvenience. Roger says that “performance was never discussed and therefore what I have got will have to do. If I wanted a performance item I should have asked for one” He is right in saying that performance was not discussed, but I didn’t expect to get a poorly engineered product!
He refuses to give me my money back and says that they will do the job.
I have been told by 5 separate exhaust fabricators that they will;
a) Restrict flow severely and create potentially harmful back pressure
b) Not do the job they were designed for properly
c) 3 of them told me they would crack around one particular weld
d) A couple of them pointed to separate areas saying the welding might ‘burn out’ as it was protruding too far into the internal bore.

Just the fact that the down pipe is the incorrect size surely warrants a refund? He said if it was an ‘off the shelf’ item he would give me a refund but as he had to make them, I cant have one, is this even legal?

He has now offered me a credit note but I really don’t want to use his company again, does anyone have any suggestions? I am pulling my hair out here, my car has been off the road for well over a month now and I don’t know what to do. I don’t earn much money and can’t afford to have them made elsewhere unless I get a refund.

I can post some photos of the workmanship if this would help.

Unless anyone wants to buy the credit note from me?

Any thoughts / advice greatly appreciated.
Nick B

[BenBaron]

Hi Nick,

Im really surprised at this, I have ordered and recieved a header tank with no problems at all. I have even been singing his prasies...

I was going to order my side pipes from him, but I will now obviuosly reconsider.
I hope everything works out for you and If I had anthing to do with the recomendation I appolosgise......x(

What about everybody else????

[sskentelbery]

Nick

I've not dealt with Shinybitz, but:

Look at this website from Trading Standards:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0050-0100.txt

It really winds me up to think I’ve been walked all over by shops in the past. My missus is a barrister and returning knackered or just crap items to shops with her is quite an eye opener.

It generally goes something like this:

She is told “sorry, the item wasn’t designed to blah blah blah” (ie, do what it was designed to do) whereby she quotes the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended in 2000) and asks for her money back in full. Manager gets stroppy and concedes.

Then she is told “ok, but we only give refunds in the form of credit notes”, whereby she re-quotes the Sale of Goods Act, again. They often don’t concede and quote company policy. Missus then just bores them for as long as necessary with facts from the Trading Standards Q&A page on the internet. Manager, visibly tiring, can’t wait to get rid of her and gives her the money back, in cash, in full. Manager = :} Missus = :tu

The key thing is, if the manifolds aren’t fit for use for which they were intended (ie, removing hot, aggressive gases from a high performance engine) then you haven’t bought the goods that were advertised and you were honestly expecting. If they don’t even fit, well………..!!

1. You have a legal right to a refund in cash, not in a credit note. Not sure if this is relevant now, as you have already accepted the credit note.
2. The goods have to be ‘fit for use’. If they are not, which you will have to decide (although, based on what various independent people have said, it sounds like the goods aren’t), then you are entitled to a full refund. It don’t have to be broke to get a refund, just duff – not able to carry out the function it was intended for!

Obviously we don’t want to upset traders in our little corner of the world as it’ll back fire on us – it’s not the end of the world blowing your top as a faceless punter in a big electrical outlet, but it’s a bugger when you have a bad relationship with an essential supplier.

See what he says about your rights as he may just need a bit of coaxing? Sounds like, as with a lot of High Street shops, he’s just not aware of your rights rather than just trying to put one over on you and being

I think that most of the suppliers in our little niche are fab, luckily.
:tu

Good luck though, as being sold short ain't funny!

[STEVE T]

Get the forms for county court action fill them in and send a copy to shinybits saying that if you don't get a refund you will start proceedings it will only cost you about £15.00 , if he contests the case he will have to apearin court and he will lose .


regards Steve T

[nicklouse10]

Thanks for the advice and the support guys
I have just got a mail from him stating that because the manifolds he sent and I quote "will exhaust the gasses from your engine" they are fit for the purpose they were designed for.

This is utter tosh as 3 bog roll tubes would "exhaust the gasses from your engine" for a brief period! a bit extreme I know but the principal is there.

He is also saying that I bought a cheap product and now I have to live with the consequences. He even went as far as to suggest that if I wanted a decent set I should have gone to Dax and paid £1800

I have not accepted the credit note, nor cashed the 10% discount cheque yet.
I will take some pictures of the manifolds and post them here so everyone can see the level of craftsmanship applied.

I don’t know what level of proof I need to deem them "not fit for the purpose they were designed" but I am hoping the pictures, and the opinions of 5 independent manifold fabricators should do the trick. I will give trading standards a bell at 1.30pm when they open and get the low down.

Any more advice / opinion would still be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Nick B

[kdavies3]

Go for it! Nick, I certainly think you have a case.

At the end of the day it is Roger who's going to lose out on a lot of potential business from club members.

Good Luck with it, I don't think you'll need it. :tu

[robert]

Nick

FYI

Set of Stainless Steel manifolds from GD are £450.


HEX01 Polished S/S Exhaust Manifolds 450.00 1 450.00

[sskentelbery]

Fit for use - you have several persons independant opinions. If they are willing to put this on paper for you, ask them to do it.

It doesn't matter whether it was cheap or not - it has to be fit for purpose - even if it was free (although it probably would be deemed a bit harsh if you were given an item for free and it didn't work)!

If it isn't going to do the job properly and it won't do the job for very long because it hasnt been put together properly (which is what your fellas have said), then it aint fit for use!! Quite simple.

If you haven't accepted the credit note, get your money back in cash. You have every right to return it if it is faulty.

You just have to convince him it is faulty, which is where the fellas you have spoken to come in. End of the day, if you give them a tenner each for their trouble, its better than ending up with a manifold that has cost you and will break after five minutes.

Didn't you say it didn't even fit? Well, that's that then!! It DON'T FIT!! So CAN'T BE USED! :}

Its like buying a pair of jeans for £10.99 from a shop saying 32in waste (I wish), getting them home and finding one knee with a hole in and the waste size is actually 28in. Now, I don't think it'd be asking too much to get a refund, even if they cost £10.99?? They don't do what they are 'sposed to!

Oh, and, if it's all agreed that the useless chunk of metal is useless, you're not even liable for the costs of returning it to the manufacturer - but that's up to you!

Good luck, and keep us up to date!

[nicklouse10]

thanks for the support guys, I feel a lot better now. I thought I was goint to lose out big time.

I have just spoken to the trading standards office on the phone who told me I am entitled to a full refund. They instructed me to make arrangements with Roger to have the manifolds posted back to him at his expense. To take photographs as evidence. And not to cash the 10% cheque he sent me as compensation for being well over a month late in delivery

I can prove they are defective by the statements of the 5 independent manifold manufacturers I visited. and the photos will be further evidence.
The trading standards office informed me of the "supply of goods and services act" which ensures;

"Goods must be of satisfactory quality" - 5 professionals have said they are sub standard.
"They must be fit for the purpose they were intended" - they will not be adequate to exhaust the gasses efficiently from a high power engine
"they must be as described" - He said the pipes either side of the middle one are welded ON to the central pipe, and surrounded by a shroud. The ones He has supplied are welded INTO a hole in the centre pipe and because they have not been mitred properly, they protrude too far and block airflow etc etc etc
"They must have been made with reasonable care and skill of workmanship as would be employed by a professional in the field". - 5 professionals have said their standard level of work (even for low budget items) is of a much higher standard.

I really want to get this cleared up as soon as possible and it is for those reasons that I have offered to pay the postage getting them back to Him. The ball is in his court now. I can only wait for a response. I was told it would cost me £30 to take him to court and I would definitely win hands down, so if he refuses to give in I will have to go down that road.

Its a shame really and I would be better off financially if I took his credit note and gave it to one of you guys to use but he has caused me so much hassle I would resent him having the extra business.
I will try to stick some pics up here this afternoon.
Nick B

[sskentelbery]

That's good to hear!

I am dead against people that have petty grumbles with companies that do their best - cuz it makes it darn difficult for people with geniune beefs like you to get any joy.

You're probably very sensible sending the stuff back yourself - at least you are acting extremely reasonably and fairly. And you must get all your money back - you are intitled to and it's prinicple of the matter - why should you not replace the manifold with one that actually works from wherever you want (preferably one that'll do the job!)

Don't be bullied - you didn't ask for this bother did you!

Fingers crossed you'll be sorted soon :7

Simon