Clutch Problem..... I think

[Nick S]

Evening all,

Here I am again with a tale of woe and seeking some advice. I thought I would put this thread in 3 parts, 1st what happened, 2nd what I found and finally questions arising from parts 1 & 2.

1.
Whilst travelling back from the EM meet on Sunday afternoon, after driving for about 30 minutes I encountered a complete lack of drive under moderate 1st & 2nd gear exceleration. However, when I eased of the gas, the drive re-appeared, this was coupled with the clutch pedal going down to the floor (no pressure ~ like the cable had snapped) I knew it could not be the cable as the clutch is hydraulic. I got home with out further incident, however I did a couple of quick pull aways (purely to test) and the same thing occured, but it was fine when driving moderately. Got home and put the car away in disgust, however I noticed that the clutch reservoir was near the minimum mark.

2.
On Monday evening, pulled the car out of the garage to wash it and discovered 3no puddles under the car (normally only one) The other two were as follows, 1no red (this was ATF and was directly below the junction of the clutch bell housing and gearbox (Borg Warner T5) The other was a mixture of red spots and clear (I have been told by a knowledgeble neighbour that this smells like clutch fluid. I have tonight lifted the car up and have found that the outer underside of the gearbox is spotted with ATF, and there is a drip on the clutch slave cylinder outer rubber (this slave cylinder is mounted at 12.00 O'Clock to the bell housing and is directly below my distributor.

3.
a. With limited mechanical knowledge, is it adviseable to attempt to overhaul the slave cylinder.
b. I reckon it would be easier taking the distributor off, however is this a bad idea for a mechanical half wit like me.
c. The slave cylinder has written on one side AP with the numbers 3232 directly over 673C and Q285 on the other. Can anyone help identify what seal kit I need.
d. With regard to the ATF spots, is there a front seal on the BW T5, I replaced the rear one about 3-months ago and would it be adviseable to get the a local garage to do this element of the work.
e. I suffer with a bit of clutch shudder when first driving the car, could this be down to hydraulic fluid or / & ATF getting on the clutch plates. If so would it be adviseable to change the clutch whilst the box is out.

Thanks to anyone who can advise me before I start getting out of my depth.

Nick.

[hairysanta]

Hi Nick,
Cant explain your lack of drive, sounds very strange to me ( might seem like a strange question but are you jag based)

My bw box has a seal on the first motion shaft (input shaft)and is quite easy to replace-- 4 bolts to undo and cover is in your hand, once box is out

Old mechanics trick testing for brake fluid-- put a small drop on the end of your tongue (once tasted never forgotten) dont worry It wont harm you as long as you dont drink it Easiest way to tell oil from brake fluid

If you are dropping the box it would be worth having a look at the clutch driven plate and pressure plate and dont forget the thrust bearing (these take quite a hammering) and the first motion shaft pilot bearing(in the end of the crank)

you can get new seals for the cylinder but check the bore first, it might pay you in the long run to fit a new one (warning )make sure its the same bore or you will totaly mess up the throw and pressure of your pedal

All the best

Pete

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by hairysanta

Hi Nick,
Cant explain your lack of drive, sounds very strange to me ( might seem like a strange question but are you jag based)

My bw box has a seal on the first motion shaft (input shaft)and is quite easy to replace-- 4 bolts to undo and cover is in your hand, once box is out

Old mechanics trick testing for brake fluid-- put a small drop on the end of your tongue (once tasted never forgotten) dont worry It wont harm you as long as you dont drink it Easiest way to tell oil from brake fluid

If you are dropping the box it would be worth having a look at the clutch driven plate and pressure plate and dont forget the thrust bearing (these take quite a hammering) and the first motion shaft pilot bearing(in the end of the crank)

you can get new seals for the cylinder but check the bore first, it might pay you in the long run to fit a new one (warning )make sure its the same bore or you will totaly mess up the throw and pressure of your pedal

All the best

Pete

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the advice, and in answer to your points

I am not sure whether it's Jag or Ford, as I didn't build the car ( I think it's more Ford)

Old mechanics trick testing for brake fluid-- put a small drop on the end of your tongue (once tasted never forgotten) dont worry It wont harm you as long as you dont drink it Easiest way to tell oil from brake fluid ~~~~~ that's what my neighbour did (can't fault him)

If you are dropping the box it would be worth having a look at the clutch driven plate and pressure plate and dont forget the thrust bearing (these take quite a hammering) and the first motion shaft pilot bearing(in the end of the crank) ~~~~~ I never thought about the thrust bearing at all (is this part of the clutch or the gear box?)

you can get new seals for the cylinder but check the bore first, it might pay you in the long run to fit a new one (warning )make sure its the same bore or you will totaly mess up the throw and pressure of your pedal ~~~~~ did the markings on the side of the cylinder make any sense to you?

Thanks again

Nick.

[wilf]

Sorry Nick, but if your clutch is slipping (the lack of drive you mention) then there is probably more wrong here than just the slave cylinder.

It is possible that the slave has jammed in a "forward" position (i.e. as if you had the clutch pedal pressed down), and that could give the symptoms you describe.

First thing to do is to drop off that slave and have a good look. Be careful - if it is still pushing the clutch actuating arm forward there will be a huge pressure involved - finger endangering!

I suspect that something worse lurks within the bellhousing, sorry mate, but a clutch problem is not the end of the world, although it might seem like it after your trials and tribulations.

If you are changing th clutch, change it all - driven plate, pressure plate, and thrust bearing. The ATF leak is very likely from the front gearbox seal - and may not be significant in itself. A lot of them do it.

If you need a slave seal kit, Jem Hydraulics in Hinckley are the boys.

[ldtopham]

If you can get a look see on the slave while someone operates the pedal make sure it appears to reach normal travel. When did you last check the clutch fluid level? An oil contaminated friction plate (possibly the gearbox input shaft seal that Pete mentions above) would give the symptoms you describe.
Good luck in your quest to find the fault, hope it's something easy, keep us posted

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by wilf

Sorry Nick, but if your clutch is slipping (the lack of drive you mention) then there is probably more wrong here than just the slave cylinder.

It is possible that the slave has jammed in a "forward" position (i.e. as if you had the clutch pedal pressed down), and that could give the symptoms you describe.

First thing to do is to drop off that slave and have a good look. Be careful - if it is still pushing the clutch actuating arm forward there will be a huge pressure involved - finger endangering!

I suspect that something worse lurks within the bellhousing, sorry mate, but a clutch problem is not the end of the world, although it might seem like it after your trials and tribulations.

If you are changing th clutch, change it all - driven plate, pressure plate, and thrust bearing. The ATF leak is very likely from the front gearbox seal - and may not be significant in itself. A lot of them do it.

If you need a slave seal kit, Jem Hydraulics in Hinckley are the boys.

Wilf,

I am in total agreement with you that I might as well do it all while I'm at it, however I feel completely out of my comfort zone (if I do it myself)

Going to have a look at it tonight and decide whether to do it or get it done

I will keep you informed / pick your brains as the need arises (at about 15 minute intervals by past performance)

Thanks again

Nick.

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by ldtopham

If you can get a look see on the slave while someone operates the pedal make sure it appears to reach normal travel. When did you last check the clutch fluid level? An oil contaminated friction plate (possibly the gearbox input shaft seal that Pete mentions above) would give the symptoms you describe.
Good luck in your quest to find the fault, hope it's something easy, keep us posted

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the advice, I am going to get my neighbour to give the pedal a few pushes tonight and see what happens. I have (like a plonker) never checked the fluid since I bought the car 12 months ago. I agree with Wilf 100% that I will get the whole shooting match done while I am at it. My only concern is whether I can do it myself with the limited facilities and experience I have (using you chaps as a guide) I will keep your informed of progress and if I decide to roll the car on to the drive and 'Guy Forkes' it, everyone is invited.

Nick.

[tonym]

Originally Posted by wilf

If you need a slave seal kit, Jem Hydraulics in Hinckley are the boys.

Unfortunately, Jems have been closed for over a month now with no warning, nothing at the premises and nothing on answerphone to explain why

Bit poor really as I need some parts from them