Pilgrim- The Truth

[dolphinboy400]

Originally Posted by pilgrimcars

STATEMENT FROM TONY HOLMES, EX OWNER OF PILGRIM CARS


[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Who would like to buy the following for £12,500.00, Mk 3 Sumo body moulds/Mk 3 Sumo Ford based chassis jigs/Mk 3 Sumo Jaguar based chassis jigs/Speedster 2+2 body moulds and jigs/Speedster 4 Seater body moulds and jigs/VW floorpan shortening jig/Healey 3000 body moulds and chassis jigs/Sumo hardtop mould/Healey 3000 hardtop mould/Mk 5 Bulldog body mould/Family Tourer body mould/Early Sumo moulds/Merc Sprinter dropside truck/forklift truck with 6 new batteries/mig welder/metal folder/plasmer cutter/presses/guillotine/jacks/axle stands/gas analyser/tracking gear/ hand tools/metal stock/gel coat/matt/stock in the stores and much much more, and including £45,000.00 of orders, that’s what Den paid!! Just for the record I paid a three-figure sum for the company, and invested a substantial amount to keep it going over the years, so who lost out most?

Regards

Tony Holmes

forgive me for being a dumbass but arent those items the property of pilgrim cars and therefore should have been left on the premeses when it went into administration, as assets.

[Miket]

Originally Posted by dolphinboy400

forgive me for being a dumbass but arent those items the property of pilgrim cars and therefore should have been left on the premeses when it went into administration, as assets.

They where and Den bought them for £12.500.00.

[dolphinboy400]

Originally Posted by Miket

They where and Den bought them for £12.500.00.

ahh ok thats why i put the first bit of my post in

[robinj66]

Well I applaud you Tony for posting up an explanation. It takes some guts

Just sorry that it all had to end like this

[kitcarman]

Originally Posted by pilgrimcars

I wish Den the best of luck in running the Company in these difficult times, he’s already been through one recession so he knows the score.

Tony Holmes

I could take issue with things you've implied, as indeed you have with things I've implied. However, that would merely be arguing semantics because when all is said and done we both agree on the fundamental point which was that there was next to nothing by way of stock or WIP left at the factory by the time the receivers got there.

Is that an allegation?
Is your response an excuse?
Or is it the one fact upon which we’re both agreed and can be checked? ie The Truth.

For what it’s worth, I deeply empathise with you in your position. I hope you’ll have learned something and find gainful future employment. I have to honestly say though, that your track record in the kit car industry should be directing you along another career path. The Minotaur, IMO, will lead you into yet another labyrinth if you’re daft enough to stick with it.

I thank you for your good wishes. Frankly I know that I’ve a hill to climb.

I’ve actually been through 2 economic recessions (when I started in the 1980’s and in the early to mid 1990’s) and a recession of another kind which led to my selling-out just before the economic boom times of 2002 to 2006. It looks like I’ll have to toil another few years before I truly reap the reward that was ‘stolen’ from me a decade ago.

[TINKA]

Den I have read several posts that imply there was nothing in the way of jig's moulds and tools left behind But from the sounds of Tony's post they were in fact all at the factory

Which is correct

[kitcarman]

Originally Posted by TINKA

Den I have read several posts that imply there was nothing in the way of jig's moulds and tools left behind But from the sounds of Tony's post they were in fact all at the factory

Which is correct

Hi Tinka,
My words were/are accurate.
I never suggested that any current Pilgrim moulds/jigs were missing. Indeed if you look at the most recent thread, I’d have thought it was crystal clear that I have indeed purchased all the means to produce new kits. I did say that a Cobra mould and jig went walkies along with all those to do with Minotaur.

So, both Tony and I are telling The Truth on this point.

[Stu J]

Originally Posted by robinj66

Well I applaud you Tony for posting up an explanation. It takes some guts

Just sorry that it all had to end like this

I agree with Robin, but why end it there? keep posting, because you can only gain more respect if the answers were resolved.

You can blame the forum for critisism, but you can't blame the people who were merely in the same boat..... you never answered to stop the fire spreading.

In alot of ways the forum is all about like minded people interested in one thing, (I'm not preaching egg sucking) but there is always somebody who knows the answer that I didn't, whether in business or cobra building.... a social site

If it is the kit car industry you continue to persevere, get some support... dare I say it on here

[wilf]

Tony - whatever the ins and outs, two things stand out in my mind:

1: There were calls for necessary improvements to the Sumo here for ages that went unheeded, and doubtless put potential purchasers off. That cannot have helped the Company overall.

2: No matter what the circumstances, people who are unsecured creditors and will lose their cash will never look kindly upon you. That you simply have to live with. No amount of pleading of good intentions will alter the fact that they lost their hard-earned.

A sad tale, and one we will see frequently repeated elsewhere in business over the next 12 months I fear.

[dingocooke]

A sad and sorry tale no doubt, I don't envy Tony Holmes being in this position, but what I would say is he's paid for a very expensive lesson; if there is a next time for him its worth remembering that it's better to tell clients the truth however bad that might be, rather than trotting out excuses. Oh and work with people to fix problems before they become reputations.

The Markku episode was a classic home goal in my opinion; easily avoided yet so unfair to the guy concerned and so damaging to Pilgrims reputation.
As Dave said, its not easy in any business; but I would add from my own personal experience, that there is no reason not to tell the truth to clients and creditors alike.

Good luck to all anyway; lets hope 2009 brings a nice warm light at the end of the tunnel.

PS-Tony if you think you were hard done to, Woolworths are reported to be about to sell their chain of 800 stores complete with stock for £1 (thats not a typo), and DSG (Dixons, Curry's PC World) are allegedly on the brink of big news.