Pilgrim- The Truth

[pilgrimcars]

STATEMENT FROM TONY HOLMES, EX OWNER OF PILGRIM CARS


I think you all deserve to know the true facts as to why Pilgrim had to go into administration and answers to all allegations made on the forums. Obviously I understand people gossip and rumours are exaggerated but as far as the forum is concerned the facts are based on one man’s opinion and that man was not aware of the companies predicament at the time.

The administrator told me not to contact anybody; they would deal with it all and is the reason correspondence from myself hasn’t been made.

Over the last twelve months the orders slowed down and the company experienced a cashflow problem. The final six weeks were like a tap being turned off, the orders dried up, the overheads could not be met and my personal money that had helped to prop up the company for the past two years was drained.

Putting the company into administration was one of the worst things I have ever had to do and telling my very skilled workforce/friends including two family members is something I will never forget.

Please accept my sincere apologies to all the customers who have lost money, my aim was to keep the company afloat, buy more stock and make you all happy. The bank made it very difficult for the company to trade and the previous flexibility we were given was unexpectedly taken from us in the last week of trading. As I am sure you are aware, all banks at this time were tightening their belts due to the increasing threat of the global recession.

It appears the Forum has labelled me a ‘Crook’ but I can assure you all the customers’ money was deposited in the company account not mine!! The administrator rigorously checked the company for improper trading and was satisfied things were done correctly.

Accusations have been made that I have stolen two demo models, a Black Speedster of which has never existed and a Sumo that was sold to Mark at Totalheadturners seven months ago. The models used at the last few shows were customer’s cars.

Yes, the stocks in the stores were low because as parts came in they were immediately posted out to customers. The workshop looked bare because the customers were informed of the situation and were given time to remove their cars before the administrators moved in, for this they were truly grateful. One chassis and two bodies that had just been paid for were also removed and passed on to their rightful owners. I class most of my customers as friends and it really upsets me to see you all turn against me on the forums, especially only hearing one side of the story. I may not have been the best businessman in the world but I did try to help you all and certainly was not dishonest.


Who would like to buy the following for £12,500.00, Mk 3 Sumo body moulds/Mk 3 Sumo Ford based chassis jigs/Mk 3 Sumo Jaguar based chassis jigs/Speedster 2+2 body moulds and jigs/Speedster 4 Seater body moulds and jigs/VW floorpan shortening jig/Healey 3000 body moulds and chassis jigs/Sumo hardtop mould/Healey 3000 hardtop mould/Mk 5 Bulldog body mould/Family Tourer body mould/Early Sumo moulds/Merc Sprinter dropside truck/forklift truck with 6 new batteries/mig welder/metal folder/plasmer cutter/presses/guillotine/jacks/axle stands/gas analyser/tracking gear/ hand tools/metal stock/gel coat/matt/stock in the stores and much much more, and including £45,000.00 of orders, that’s what Den paid!! Just for the record I paid a three-figure sum for the company, and invested a substantial amount to keep it going over the years, so who lost out most?

Looking back now, which is always easy after the event I should have reduce staff levels and overheads ages ago, it never seemed the right time and you always think you will regret it if you got very busy, good men are hard to find. Many people have said I was mad not to take more out of the factory and look after number one but I am not like that. I was hoping for a good price for the Company to help with the creditors but even though eight people were interested Den managed to get it cheap. I think all the things said on the forums scared them off.

I expect you all know Pilgrim has never owned the Minotaur Project, we just had it under licence and the owners want me to continue with it. This is the only thing I have left to try and build a future for my family, but not the best timing in this economic climate. John Forakis supplied many parts for the Minotaur demo and he requested the cars removal from the factory.

Just for the records the work on my house stopped a long time ago, and did not affect the demise of the company.

Well I hope you all have a better understanding of the situation, and maybe I can now walk down the street or see you at shows without being hit. Thank you to all my past customers, I hope you have as much pleasure driving the cars as I did
.
I wish Den the best of luck in running the Company in these difficult times, he’s already been through one recession so he knows the score.

Regards

Tony Holmes

[Sidecarbod]

Tony,

Well at least you have had the balls to post your version of events, I've only skim read the post as I'll get told off for being on the forum all night.

I must say that in my humble' the reason that your orders dried up is because you did not fix any of the issues that the Sumo kit has. As a result the Sumo was getting a right old bashing on the forum for the last year. WTF didn't you fix the issues?

Pete

[jemburrett]

Quote: The workshop looked bare because the customers were informed of the situation and were given time to remove their cars before the administrators moved in, for this they were truly grateful.

I wish you'd taken the time to make a phone call to me about my car, it would have been most considerate.

Regards

Jeremy

[Miket]

Originally Posted by pilgrimcars

Over the last twelve months the orders slowed down and the company experienced a cashflow problem. The final six weeks were like a tap being turned off, the orders dried up, the overheads could not be met and my personal money that had helped to prop up the company for the past two years was drained.




Who would like to buy the following for £12,500.00, Mk 3 Sumo body moulds/Mk 3 Sumo Ford based chassis jigs/Mk 3 Sumo Jaguar based chassis jigs/Speedster 2+2 body moulds and jigs/Speedster 4 Seater body moulds and jigs/VW floorpan shortening jig/Healey 3000 body moulds and chassis jigs/Sumo hardtop mould/Healey 3000 hardtop mould/Mk 5 Bulldog body mould/Family Tourer body mould/Early Sumo moulds/Merc Sprinter dropside truck/forklift truck with 6 new batteries/mig welder/metal folder/plasmer cutter/presses/guillotine/jacks/axle stands/gas analyser/tracking gear/ hand tools/metal stock/gel coat/matt/stock in the stores and much much more, and including £45,000.00 of orders, that’s what Den paid!! Just for the record I paid a three-figure sum for the company, and invested a substantial amount to keep it going over the years, so who lost out most?




Tony Holmes

So which statement highlighted in RED is correct.

[Purple AK]

I expect you all know Pilgrim has never owned the Minotaur Project, we just had it under licence and the owners want me to continue with it. This is the only thing I have left to try and build a future for my family, but not the best timing in this economic climate. John Forakis supplied many parts for the Minotaur demo and he requested the cars removal from the factory.
So exactly how were the developement and build costs of the demonstrator funded Tony?

[dave]

Well if no one else will then I will.
Although I have never been a customer of yours Tony I appreciate your coming here and posting your message.
Many people here do not run a business and do not realise quit how important cash flow is.
Here's a little explanation for them.
If you have a business and you run an overdraft facility (Which is perfectly normal) and you rely on it then just when you need it the most the bank decides that they want to withdraw that facility then basically you are screwed, any cash that might be in the bank that was previously available (Upto the overdraft limit) is instantly gone, deposits, sales, rent, wages, VAT...the lot.
This has nothing to do with peoples personal gripes, just letting them know how the money suddenly dissapears.

Assuming that this is what happened, it usually is.
Good luck with what the future may hold for you Tony
Don't you think the Minotaur might be a bit "Heavyweight" in this climate? (Very small potential customer base)
I think i've already wished Den good luck in kicking Pilgrim back into life.

[ron oil leak]

i placed my order with you for my bodyshell and other goods in total £3,164 on the 24/07/08 bodyshell come in september with parts missing i made so many phone calls to you,your reply was you are so busy with shows or you was busy with all your other customers orders or the stores man was on holiday or the parts i was waiting for were being chromed. I phoned you on the thursday the day before the receivers come in to you told me i would have all my parts delivered on the monday i did trust you to rectify this problem but iam still waiting.With the benefit hindsight i wish i had payed with a credit card iam going to loose my money

Ron

[nikbj68]

Originally Posted by dave

....
If you have a business and you run an overdraft facility (Which is perfectly normal) and you rely on it then just when you need it the most the bank decides that they want to withdraw that facility then basically you are screwed....

Ironically, almost exactly what caused the demise of Autokraft....with similar results.

The administrators will have taken the most viable bid for the company, whether other interested parties were influenced by the content of a dozen people`s posts is unlikely to have affected the outcome, much more likely is a (quite reasonable) fear of taking on any low volume, luxury item business in the current economic climate.

[steve ferguson]

Tony

Never had a problem with you, or Pilgrim under you. I got everything I ordered eventually.
However, I feel you do protest too much and the title of your post may be stretching it a little. In the last recession I lost my job in the luxury car market so I do understand how it works but..... Some advice, walk away from the Minotaur, its a money pit, just MHO

[VeeEight]

Originally Posted by pilgrimcars

STATEMENT FROM TONY HOLMES, EX OWNER OF PILGRIM CARS


I think you all deserve to know the true facts as to why Pilgrim had to go into administration and answers to all allegations made on the forums. Obviously I understand people gossip and rumours are exaggerated but as far as the forum is concerned the facts are based on one man’s opinion and that man was not aware of the companies predicament at the time.

The administrator told me not to contact anybody; they would deal with it all and is the reason correspondence from myself hasn’t been made.

Over the last twelve months the orders slowed down and the company experienced a cashflow problem. The final six weeks were like a tap being turned off, the orders dried up, the overheads could not be met and my personal money that had helped to prop up the company for the past two years was drained.

Putting the company into administration was one of the worst things I have ever had to do and telling my very skilled workforce/friends including two family members is something I will never forget.

Please accept my sincere apologies to all the customers who have lost money, my aim was to keep the company afloat, buy more stock and make you all happy. The bank made it very difficult for the company to trade and the previous flexibility we were given was unexpectedly taken from us in the last week of trading. As I am sure you are aware, all banks at this time were tightening their belts due to the increasing threat of the global recession.

It appears the Forum has labelled me a ‘Crook’ but I can assure you all the customers’ money was deposited in the company account not mine!! The administrator rigorously checked the company for improper trading and was satisfied things were done correctly.

Accusations have been made that I have stolen two demo models, a Black Speedster of which has never existed and a Sumo that was sold to Mark at Totalheadturners seven months ago. The models used at the last few shows were customer’s cars.

Yes, the stocks in the stores were low because as parts came in they were immediately posted out to customers. The workshop looked bare because the customers were informed of the situation and were given time to remove their cars before the administrators moved in, for this they were truly grateful. One chassis and two bodies that had just been paid for were also removed and passed on to their rightful owners. I class most of my customers as friends and it really upsets me to see you all turn against me on the forums, especially only hearing one side of the story. I may not have been the best businessman in the world but I did try to help you all and certainly was not dishonest.


Who would like to buy the following for £12,500.00, Mk 3 Sumo body moulds/Mk 3 Sumo Ford based chassis jigs/Mk 3 Sumo Jaguar based chassis jigs/Speedster 2+2 body moulds and jigs/Speedster 4 Seater body moulds and jigs/VW floorpan shortening jig/Healey 3000 body moulds and chassis jigs/Sumo hardtop mould/Healey 3000 hardtop mould/Mk 5 Bulldog body mould/Family Tourer body mould/Early Sumo moulds/Merc Sprinter dropside truck/forklift truck with 6 new batteries/mig welder/metal folder/plasmer cutter/presses/guillotine/jacks/axle stands/gas analyser/tracking gear/ hand tools/metal stock/gel coat/matt/stock in the stores and much much more, and including £45,000.00 of orders, that’s what Den paid!! Just for the record I paid a three-figure sum for the company, and invested a substantial amount to keep it going over the years, so who lost out most?

Looking back now, which is always easy after the event I should have reduce staff levels and overheads ages ago, it never seemed the right time and you always think you will regret it if you got very busy, good men are hard to find. Many people have said I was mad not to take more out of the factory and look after number one but I am not like that. I was hoping for a good price for the Company to help with the creditors but even though eight people were interested Den managed to get it cheap. I think all the things said on the forums scared them off.

I expect you all know Pilgrim has never owned the Minotaur Project, we just had it under licence and the owners want me to continue with it. This is the only thing I have left to try and build a future for my family, but not the best timing in this economic climate. John Forakis supplied many parts for the Minotaur demo and he requested the cars removal from the factory.

Just for the records the work on my house stopped a long time ago, and did not affect the demise of the company.

Well I hope you all have a better understanding of the situation, and maybe I can now walk down the street or see you at shows without being hit. Thank you to all my past customers, I hope you have as much pleasure driving the cars as I did
.
I wish Den the best of luck in running the Company in these difficult times, he’s already been through one recession so he knows the score.

Regards

Tony Holmes

This fairy story sound like an excuse for a very poorly run company with most of your recent customers not saying a good word about you BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.
If you were a decent person, sell your house and pay back the people you have conned out of their money. Your statement can be pulled to pieces but it is not worth spending the time doing that as I would rather clean out the pigsty.
Phil