MkIII Sumo donor

[Dangerous Brian]

Ok, while I've been looking for a completed car for the last couple of months,(thanks for all the advice so far folks), I have been offered on 2 occaisions an almost unstarted mk3 sumo kit, with various amounts of ancilliaries included. With some spare time at hand at the moment, I am reconcidering building. Now the normal donor for the sumo is the sierra or I think the mk3 granada. The problem is that I'm not awfully well up on ford donor vehicles, (although I did buy/strip a 2.0 ltr sierra for a friends Robin Hood build). So the problem is that the last thing I want is rear drum brakes. Now I know that later, '91 on ?, sierras had discs, but I've not happened accross one yet. If I use a granada for the donor just how much of the car can I use?, ie steering column, rack, column switches etc. What about hubs 4 as against 5 stud, wheels available? Anything I must use from the sierra? effect on single donor reg etc.
I know that Pilgrim can probably answer most of these questions and probably others that I've not yet concidered, but I'd prefer your opinions first.
Thanks in advance,
Brian.

[Kelvin]

Hi brian,

I think that pilgrim do supply a granada loom. If you do buy a part finished chassis be sure to ckeck the top wsihbones as i had a nightmare by drilling the hole out too big.

Hope any of this helps

Kelvin

[fakesnake]

We are building a Granny based sumo at the mo. All Grannys have rear disks. I think only the 'hot' Sierras (i.e. Cossies, XR4x4s) had rear disks.

The only thing that Pilgrim recomend when doing a Granny based kit is using a Sierra Steering column/switchgear. It is possible to use the Granada column but you need a special little bracket at the bottom.

Pilgrim do a Granada based loom so if you do use the Granny steering column/switchgear that'll be ok. If you decide to use the Sierra Column/switchgear then use a Sierra loom

As far as the 5 stud things goes there are no probs at all with getting wheels to fit. With the registration you can easily keep the donor Granada registraion...

Enjoy...

[Paul B]

Hi Brian

I have recently finished and SVA'ed my Sumo with Sierra donor parts. I read somewhere that if you use the rear discs, they can be too good and fail at the SVA. This would then require you to place a restrictor in the line but you will not know how much restriction is required until it's tested.

I actually used new front disc's and pad but kept the old rear drums and shoes.

I only just passed as the rears locked up on the rolling road and I was told that this usually indicated a failure. However, after running the figures through their computer, I actually passed.

Most braking is done through the front brakes and I really cannot say that in the 2000 miles since my SVA, I had wish for rear disc's. I do however, wish for better front discs and pads as the ones I bought were fairly cheap and alomost certainly not up to the normal Ford standard!!

The motto, if there is one, is take all the advice on offer then make your own mind up.

[Dangerous Brian]

Thanks lads,
Paul, my reason for wanting rear discs is not for better braking but simply because I feel discs look so much better than drums on these cars. Will it still be over braked at the rear if the complte system from one car is used? due to much less rear end weight? Are'nt all granadas ABS? doesnt this give problems with the master cylinder etc?
Brian.

[Miket]

Brian

Have you checked with Pilgrim, is it the same chassis to accommodate Sierra or Granada parts? I might be wrong , but I thought they were different.

[normanh]

Hi Brian,

Using ABS will cause you more problems than its worth, and indeed when I asked Pilgrim about it .... well you can imagine the response.

I'm using disks all round, and you have two options, fit the sierra balance valve in the pipe to the rear brakes, or try having hard tyres on the front & soft on the rear (I think thats the right way). Tony told me before he left Pilgrim that usually works!

I was lead to beleive that ABS require more pipework, another dashboard light to warn of failure and more in the loom, sensor from each wheel, control box, ABS pump etc...

Norm.

[Dan]

If your going for the Halibrand Replica wheel then your unlikly to see much of the disc anyway - My opinion is the disc brakes,(although more powerful), requires more work to get right and therefor more to go wrong when at the SVA...

Dan 'Were all these nuts used before' Man
www.cobra.kitcar.btinternet.co.uk

[Bob]

If you want discs for the look then fair enough; but you can hardly see them through Halibrand replicas and they make the wheels twice as hard to clean and believe me they are pigs to clean, my front wheels are always black through brake dust.Disc brakes are not required for stopping the drums are more than man enough to pull up a Sumo which I believe is still the lightest replica sold. The biggest plus for rear discs is that the drive shafts are refurbishable you can buy replacement velocity joint parts and gaitors where the drum ones are not so split gaitor is a problem. In the end its up to you. I bought both and fitted the drums and they work fine and passed the SVA first time, the print out showed almost perfect braking split.

[domenico]

Hi all!

I have done a lot of swaps on my Sumo MKIII.

First I have had drums at the back from a sierra estate 1.8,
now I have disks all round from a Sierra cosworth 2wd.

Benefits of the drums are that you have your wheels always
cleaned at the back.

If you have hallibrand you will not to be able to see anything, not
even the clippers which I have painted in red to make them looking
nice you have to buy new disks with some cuts/holes on the face, plain
ones looks bad.

Now listen to this.... drums at the back brake more than disks, this
is due to the braking surface whitch is obviously bigger. The problem
with drums is with the heath ..... only if you use them heavly.

Always try to use good tyres at the front the softer the better, the
car will handle better and will brake better.

I have found that with disks all around you will not need restriction/compensation
on the back fuel sistems.

The only problem I have with brakes is that the left front wheel will
brake more than any other well. Bear in mind that my sumo is LHD and
I am sitting on the left of the car.

Soon I will try to put the ABS in it, but I konw already that it
will not work for two main reasons, first the weight of the car
is 840kg compared to 1450kg of the original sierra and secondly
the rpm of the rear wheel is slightly slower then the rpm of the
front wheels.

Does anyone know where I can get the ABS re-chipped?

Domenico
PS I know that pilgrim have build a granada based sumo with the ABS
system but it did not work.