what colour goes where?!

[pcoghlan]

OK, after going through the diagrams that were so kindly produced at the weekend I still have the following questions.

The only instrument I can immediately think of that I haven’t found is the heater switch so I imagine one of the wire groupings below will do that.

The ignition switch will likely be another. I have removed the jaguar switch and fitted a simply Lucas on/off switch into the dash so hopefully this wont create complexities.

I have 2 quite thick wires, red/white and white. Quite short no more than 12 inches from the connectors.

About same length, tied together:
Double red-orange
Double red-white
Double black
Blue-brown
Red-Orange

Any time I say double I mean two wires terminated into the same terminal.

I have two instances of a red-white and black which end in male bullets. Can I assume these are spare feeds for the dash lights (red-white) and earth (black).

I have a three wires, tied together, which consist of:
Double black to a ring terminal (only ring so should be a give-away!)
Light green to a male spade terminal
Double dark green to a female spade

Three more tied together:
Double red-white
Double mauve
Single black

Two together:
Double dark green
Double black

And one more of 5 wires:
Double red-white
Double black

Green-grey
Green yellow
Green

Thanks!!
Paul

[madjohnny]

All I can say is thank god I'm making my own!!!

From all the posts I've seen on the forum about problems with wiring looms, a lot of which half the manufacturers seem to know about and still send out to customers faulty, wouldn't you think they would sort this mess out once and for all.

There's nothing worse than wasting time, of which you need every minute for a kit car build, to be messing around sorting this type of problem out!!

Come on manufacturers, sort your acts out!

[SimonP]

Hi Paul,

White, White/red - start button.

Red/white, black - Dash lights (all instances)

Double black, lt Green, Dk Green - instrument 10 volt regulator.

Green, green/yellow, green/grey - heater switch.

Purple, black - clock. (plus red/white for it's lamp)

Dark green, black - voltmeter

About same length, tied together:
Double red-orange
Double red-white
Double black
Blue-brown
Red-Orange
This seems like the side/head light switch. Different colours to mine though.

For the ignition switch you should have a 4-way connector on the loom.
Brown is main feed, brown/red is accessory (pos.1), white is ignition (pos.2), black/white is brake warning light test.
If your switch is just off/on, you can combine the pos.1 and pos.2 circuits.
Provide an alternative brake warning light test switch (eg maybe wire to the handbrake microswitch as in a production car)

If you are in ANY doubt about your alternative ignition switch handling the large currents that flow through it on this design, you should fit a relay.
I'd recommend the 70-Amp type like most major manufacturers use for ignition switch relays these days. Don't use the standard 30-Amp type as the load can exceed 30 Amps!!

Simon.

[pcoghlan]

Simon,

Much appreciated.

the start button is easy, in fact I got that one before you replied.

The 10v regulator, ok. Now, what does the bloody thing look like! I know I have several Lucas little metal boxes (like flasher units) up on the shelf. It is a case of determining which is what?!

heater switch, clock and voltmeter, thanks. all cool.

Now for the fun bit. the headlight switch. I already had that labelled:

thick blue/brown and thin blue/brown together
thin blue/brown
double red/white
blue
thick red
double black

based upon the loom diagram I have seen I think this is correct?

anyhoo, after labelling everything else I am just left with one collectionof wires now.

double red/white
double black
single blue brown
double red/orange

tied into the same collection but about 3-4 inches longer are also:

double black
red/orange (looped off of the shorter one above)


Once I identify these I have the lot. I will check out the 4 way connector for the ignition switch.

I am hoping to use fibrefglass matting to fix some posts to the back of the dash onto which I will tie the loom to try to get something neat.

Paul

[pcoghlan]

Simon,

Just rethinking the whole relay issue. Would you have a diagram showing the arrangement?

I would have expected the start button to handle most of the current, no?

I bought a Lucas on/off switch. I didnt check out the current handling capacity but would have expected it to be fit for purpose.

Paul

[SimonP]

Paul, you can determine which the regulator can is, because it will be rectangular, have a mounting tab with a hole at one end and a notch at the other. It will have a male and a female spade connector on it. Some have double male and double female.
The terminals are usually stamped "B" - battery, dark green and "I" - instruments, light green.

Ah. Could the red/orange be red/yellow? Makes sense....

Big group, fog light switch

Blue/brown is feed
twin red/yellow is switched
red/white and black switch illumination.

Small group, fog tell-tale lamp.

Convention on older cars was that the ignition switch handled all the current. However they don't on modern cars, because the currents are higher due to there being more electrical loads like window motors and heated seats.

The ignition switches that most places sell nowadays won't handle more than 20 amps, as they're intended for things like fork trucks and generators.
The standard 6.3mm spades

On the GD you have the following currents drawn through the ignition switch:
Pos.1
Heater blower, 3.5 Amps (it's only a small blower)
Wipers and wash, 10 Amps

Pos.2
Headlights, 10 Amps
Indicators, 5 Amps
Stop and reverse lamps, 5 Amps Max
Instruments, less than 1 Amp
Electric fuel pump, up to 10 Amps
STARTER SOLENOID 30 AMPS!! - because the Jag key start position is not used.

Hazards, horn, rad fans and side lights do not go through the ignition switch.

You could put the relay at the ignition switch end to minimise wiring mods. Here's how:
1. Wire the thick brown to terminal 30 on the relay.
2. Wire the twin white and the brown/red to terminal 87 on the relay.
3. Wire a feed from the purple on the dash to the ignition switch.
4. Wire from the other side of the ignition switch to terminal 86 on the relay.
5. Wire an earth from a black on the dash to terminal 85 on the relay.

Pic of 70 Amp relay - you also need the matching socket.
Note the 9mm spades for terminals 30 and 87. Crimp and solder the wires to these to ensure a good connection.

Simon.

[pcoghlan]

Simon,

Thanks for that!

Ahh...fog lights, great!

Re the relay, is this something that a car dealer would sell (i.e a standard 70 amp starter relay) or is it something I will need to go to an electronics place like Radio Shack?

Cheers,
Paul

[oglyoodoo]

Paul

Farnell have a 12V automotive relay listed, of the type you need, in the current catalogue.

12V 70Amp with mounting bracket Part number 430 8025 at £5.74 + VAT They take credit card. Give them a call on 08701 200 200

Note that this type of relay doesn't fit in most sockets as it has the larger (9.5mm I think) Spade connections for the higher current rating.

I also have another drawing for you which I will get to you shortly.

Denis

[SimonP]

Paul,
Another supplier is Vehicle Wiring Products.
They stock both the relay (part no. R70, 5.16) and the matching socket (part no. RSI9, 1.63) all plus vat and postage.

Farnell appear not to stock any automotive relay sockets.

Simon.

[pcoghlan]

Finally managed to purchase a voltage regulator AND get it delivered! Believe me it is sooooo much easier for you guys in the UK.

Anyhoo, now that i have it, picture attached I am hoping to get the dash pretty much together this weekend.

Paul