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Thread: Upper wishbones

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    45

    Upper wishbones

    Hello,

    with my kit came the previos version of the upper wishbones (see attached 1st photo).
    After recommendation I changed them against the newer Version (2nd photo).
    Sadly the front wheels now touch the body on the backwards side of the wheel archs/wings and I through out the older wishbones.
    Can anybody give me the difference in dimension of the ball joint between the old and the new style?

    Thank you very much for your help.

    Regards
    Markus
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford Essex
    Posts
    818
    Hi

    What kit do these belong to ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Cowbridge, United Kingdom
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    61
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    9,894
    As it's in the Sumo section I assume Sumo?
    Markus have you contacted Pilgrim?
    I'm sure they'll be able to advise.
    Kev Davies
    South Wales Area Rep. UKCC Membership Secretary
    DAX Mk4, 383 Chevy Stroker, Tremec. SOLD
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    In build- Hawk 289 Sebring

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    45
    Yes, it is a Pilgrim Sumo kit.
    I have contacted Nicola from Pilgrim but haven't got any reply yet.
    Thought eventually might anybody else know this as well.

    regard
    Markus

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Carmarthen, South Wales
    Posts
    587
    Just a guess
    The original builder may have put packers where the long bolt goes through the chassis. To effectively move the original Arm back a bit and increase the castor angle.
    The new ones would have the increased castor angle already. So if you reassembled using the same bolts and packers, the result would be to move the wheel too far back. Since you no longer have the originals. Best option is to measure the castor angle and re-pack the top arm. There were quite a few old posts how to do this.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    45
    Hi,

    on the attached photo I covered 2 photos. One of each wishone.
    Alhough Pilgrim rejected, the difference seem to be more than 1".

    Sadly nobody seem to know the exact Dimension

    Regards
    Markus
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    359
    Markus,
    I recently made the same exchange (new wishbones) as you, and at the time took a few measurements. It's not an exact measurement of the displacement towards the read that the new style wishbones give because it's not easy to measure, and also because the new wishbones have the ball joint thread at an angle, so the further in you screw it in, the closer to the rear the ball joint gets (annoyingly, this means that caster and camber are not independent...). That said, I reckon the ball joint moves 15mm to the rear with the new wishbones.
    Hope that helps.
    Ben
    4.6RV8 Sumo on MSD (finally!)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    45
    Hi Ben,
    thank you very much for your help. This will give me a Feeling where to go.
    Did you change your mushrooms as well onto the bigger ones or did you keep the shorter ones?

    Regards
    Markus

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    359
    Markus,
    I changed mushrooms from shorter to taller at the same time (because I'm running Sierra, 4-stud, uprights).
    When my car was built, we didn't set the caster at all, but just bolted it all up to the chassis. I measured that I was running with basically zero caster (so it's quite surprising that the self-centering of the steering was actually pretty good).
    At the time, I worked out that 1mm rearwards movement of the upper wishbone is worht about 0.25 degrees of caster (actually, slightly less with the taller mushrooms). So, 15mm from wishbone change shoudl give about 4 degrees (ish).
    I (perhpas luckily) had no issues with interference with the body, but I did set the lower wishbones as far forwards as they'd go (by packing by space at the pivots) and the body on my car is set quite a long way backwards (so far that the right-side rear wheel does touch the arch on full compression).
    Let me know if you want more exact measurements of the old-style wishbones - I still have them in the garage.
    Ben
    4.6RV8 Sumo on MSD (finally!)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    45
    Hi Ben,
    our calculation seem to be very similar.
    Based on my 15" wheels I calculated 5mm for 1,.1 degrees. This is 0.22 degrees each mm.
    I wll check again the lower wishbones if there is some space to move them forward.
    Do you know the best caster angle? Is it 4 degrees?

    Markus

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