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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
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    41
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    3,898

    Ford FE clutch kit

    So I am suffering complete analysis paralysis right now; trying to figure out what combination of parts are required to mate a gearbox (any gearbox, really) with the 428 FE.

    Flywheel is easy, I think - McLeod 463215 should suit (https://www.mcleodracing.com/index.p...pns-30535.html) and comes with balance weights for the 428 (though I believe the Scat rotating assemblies are internal balance, like a 390, anyway), and will take 11.5 & 12" clutches; right? Or am I going crazy..

    So that means that for a Tremec 26-spline input shaft, this should be the right clutch kit - https://www.mcleodracing.com/index.p...pns-29548.html


    I was contemplating just bringing in a full kit of parts (https://www.1shopauto.com/tremec-tue...i-engines.html) but given that is ~$4700+shipping, I can imagine that will cost me close to £5500, landed, which I just can't justify to myself anymore.. especially as similar could be ~£4500 from RoadCraft, though it's a kit of unknown parts specced by me instead of parts specced by someone else to mate an FE to a T56..

    I've Googled for countless hours at this point, and tied myself in so many knots. If I had limitless money, I'd just buy stuff, try it, buy more stuff, try it - which has been my approach so far, and is why I've probably spent £30k building a £15k car - but I just can't afford that approach anymore.


    Yours,
    Overwhelmed and disillusioned of Northampton.
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
    Posts
    1,573
    Aaron
    Not sure if you have a gearbox or not, but if you want the right bits speak to this lot, don't bother buggering about anywhere else.
    http://www.moderndriveline.com/index.html
    Although they mainly do conversions for Mustangs etc ( I used them for our recent 66 Mustang resto ) what they don't know about mating gearboxes to Fords isn't worth knowing.
    At the end of the day you just want a gearbox, bellhousing, flywheel, clutch assby and release bearing to fit your 428. Just tell them you want this lot, and explain it isn't in a Mustang but your kit and they will be helpful. I just did a quick recci and I got approx $4300 to $4600 inc a HD Tremec for your 428.

    For your ankles sake get a scattershield bellhousing, I did for my BBF, when you feel the weight of the clutch and flywheel combined you don't want that coming thru the body when you get excited and dump the clutch and shit happens.
    As for the centre force release bearings don't listen to them that say they are not good, that's just people that cant set them up, I have had mine in my 460 since 2009 and I can drive it all day long, even thru traffic at Lemans for hours without any problems. Have a go at Stoneleigh and you will see how they can be set up.

    Don't forget the little bits for the gearbox, conversion of electronic speedo drive to mechanical ( if you need it ) Tremec gearbox mounts, ARP flywheel bots, ARP clutch bolts, offset dowels to set up the bellhousing to block, correct length bellhousing to block bolts ARP again.

    Don't try and reinvent the wheel ( clutch in your case ) speak to them that have doe it for years.

    Or go to Real Steel and speak to Charles, always been helpful but not sounding it at the time on the phone, however I would try http://www.moderndriveline.com/index.html before I went anywhere else.

    Ciao Bella

    David

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    814
    I’m going through something similar right now. My clutch is slipping and I probably will have to replace both the disk and pressure plate. Originally, it was recommended to use a McLeod pressure plate (360500) which is a Long type (3 finger). I notice that it has a rating of 1800 lbs of clamping pressure. Based on some research, my engine, which has a calculated output torque of 404 ft-lbs at 3700 rpm, ought to use a 2000 lb pressure plate... in fact they recommend 20% extra, so it should be a 2400 lbs pressure plate.

    I don't really like a 3 finger pressure plate as if any of the fingers exhibits a bit of weakness or wear over time, the throw-out bearing will tilt and as it's also rotating, clutch fork and possibly clutch pedal vibration is likely… which mine has started to do. A diaphragm plate should reduce this effect.

    I'm currently using an 11" McLeod disk (260171), a McLeod flywheel (463211 - no longer available, it uses a welded on weight) and 16031 throw-out bearing. A Richmond Gear 5-speed and Lakewood bell-housing are also used. From what I understand, a Quick-Time is made better than a Lakewood and frequently does not need aligning. Back when I built my car, Quick-Time was not an option. Today, Lakewood is not an option other than that’s what I have.

    If I’m going up in clamping force, then I think it would be nice if my pedal pressure doesn’t climb too, so I’m looking at a diaphragm clutch. It uses the larger bolt pattern with 3/8” bolts vs. mine which uses the smaller pattern with only 5/16” bolts.

    McLeod makes a clutch, 360850 which should work. Here’s info on the patterns:

    http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/clutch/pattern.htm

    Now to the disc. Organic face is the stock disc and should be OK, however it has been strongly recommended to me to go with a dual face disc; organic on one side and ceramic on the other. McLeod makes an 11” in their 500 series, however they use the ceramic side facing the flywheel and I don’t like that. I’m concerned about flywheel wear (like how ceramic brake pads can chew up a brake rotor). I’d rather see the pressure plate get chewed up.

    RAM makes it the other way, with the ceramic side facing the Pressure Plate, so I may go with them,, although they are a bit more expensive. Probably best to get both the PP and disc from the same manufacturer as PP’s are set for their thickness disc.

    I can’t order a “clutch kit” as the Richmond Gear transmission uses the GM 1.125” x 26 spline input shaft, so I need to order all my parts separately as all the rest are Ford. Oddly McLeod doesn’t seem to list the individual parts for their clutch kits, so there isn’t a way to find out the clamping pressure.

    Next I have the problem of the clutch fork pivot bracket (fulcrum). It’s currently riveted to the back of the bell-housing. I’m worried if I go to a diaphragm clutch, it being a lower profile than the Long style, the fork will angle back too far, so I would need to install a spacer.

    That’s something I will have to try to measure once I get the pieces assembled, then take it all apart and add the spacer. I see those brackets are available with spacers, but at the moment am uncertain about the height I need.

    Another issue I had with the Mcleod PP is that the flanges for the mounting bolts turned up very close to the bolt holes, so I couldn’t use washers. I see both McLeod and RAM offer bolt kits that appear to use a standoff under the head (could be all one piece).

    So here I am after operated my car for over 20 years and I’m suddenly going through something similar to you. Anyway, I hope this information helps.
    John

    “A prudent person profits from personal experience, a wise one from the experience of others.”

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
    Age
    41
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    3,898
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblock View Post
    Aaron
    Not sure if you have a gearbox or not, but if you want the right bits speak to this lot, don't bother buggering about anywhere else.
    http://www.moderndriveline.com/index.html
    I do, but I don't.. I do have a T56, but it's GM fitment (wrong length input shaft) and not a Magnum, so that'll get sold on (anyone want one? ) and replaced with the right spec box - I've dropped MDL a message via their website.

    For your ankles sake get a scattershield bellhousing, I did for my BBF, when you feel the weight of the clutch and flywheel combined you don't want that coming thru the body when you get excited and dump the clutch and shit happens.
    That I do already have, at least - a QuickTime bellhousing, so my ankles are safe

    I was also pondering the concentric hydraulic TOBs - I think I've read your feedback on them before and I also note that most modern cars with the T56 use exactly that (the gearbox I have came out of an Aston Martin and has one on the input shaft..), so they can't be quite as woeful as some people suggest. That said, they do make changing the slave cylinder much harder than it used to be!

    Or go to Real Steel and speak to Charles, always been helpful but not sounding it at the time on the phone, however I would try http://www.moderndriveline.com/index.html before I went anywhere else.
    I haven't tried Real Steel - good shout. I did speak to RoadCraft and they weren't sure what clutch setup to advise if memory serves, they are well priced, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggbert View Post
    So here I am after operated my car for over 20 years and I’m suddenly going through something similar to you. Anyway, I hope this information helps.
    Thanks John - I am, at least, glad I'm not the only person who does a lot of head scratching about these things! I have Googled myself in circles, which I think is half the problem.. if I could pick these things up off a shelf and try them, I'd feel much more comfortable - unfortunately shipping and import duty makes that an expensive proposition, this side of the pond!

    Aaron
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Finchampstead, Berkshire, UK.
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,590
    I’ve had a concentric TOB on my T56 For 10+ years with no problem, put a new one in 3 years ago when I swapped to an LS7 flywheel & clutch, no reason for the TOB change other than “just cos” though.

    Jim
    GD Mk3 Jag based
    Supercharged LS1
    GD J1M

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    8,562
    For that money Aaron you could probably dump the lot, get a proper toploader and a centre force clutch on the thing and you'd be sorted....and period correct.

    - thats what I'm running. The clutch is a bit heavy, but the great thing about it is that after 5 years of zero use after installing in the car ( remember that freezing col February day?), it didn't stick together or cause any trouble- works like it says on the tin.

    Hopefully see you in May (fingers crossed) at Stoneleigh, and you can try it for yourself....although likely to be wearing XJ donor wheels still.
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

    Not listed in the Shelby Register.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    For that money Aaron you could probably dump the lot, get a proper toploader and a centre force clutch on the thing and you'd be sorted....and period correct.
    I was tempted for a while there - I have a 2.88 rear end, after all, which should work fine with a 4-speed box.. of course, I'd need a new bell housing and I'm already £700 in for the bell housing I have. And I'd still have to import everything from America..

    I did get a reply from Moderndriveline overnight:

    I am not really familiar with DAX, but from what I can see, I'm not sure the
    T56 will fit. This transmission measures 33.6" from tip to tail. The drive
    shaft will be only a stub.

    The next question is, what you be using for a master cyl and pedals?

    We have some unique challenges with this one unless the version you have is
    made for the T56.


    Pretty sure the driveshaft is only a stub no matter what gearbox you fit, but .. out of interest, anyone with a T56, roughly how long is your "stub"?
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
    Posts
    1,573
    I think Aaron your question to them was over complicated with too much detail. I would just say “I have a 428 Ford engine (obviously let them know whic one ) can you suggest a Clutch, flywheel, centre force release brg and bellhousing that would work with one of your HD Tremec gearboxes” with that info and parts you would get the best option. Top loader is nice and OE, 5th gear is lovely for touring. Anyway something to be going on with.
    Having to get to the site from my phone, thus the poor spelling, both home and work pc’s wont connect with the site ?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
    Age
    41
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    3,898
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblock View Post
    I think Aaron your question to them was over complicated with too much detail. I would just say “I have a 428 Ford engine (obviously let them know whic one ) can you suggest a Clutch, flywheel, centre force release brg and bellhousing that would work with one of your HD Tremec gearboxes” with that info and parts you would get the best option. Top loader is nice and OE, 5th gear is lovely for touring. Anyway something to be going on with.
    Having to get to the site from my phone, thus the poor spelling, both home and work pc’s wont connect with the site ?
    My middle name is "overcomplicated", you know.. I've reassured them that they don't need to invent the wheel too much .. hopefully they come back with a number, this time.
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Horndean, Hants
    Age
    58
    Posts
    582
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    I was tempted for a while there - I have a 2.88 rear end, after all, which should work fine with a 4-speed box.. of course, I'd need a new bell housing and I'm already £700 in for the bell housing I have. And I'd still have to import everything from America..

    I did get a reply from Moderndriveline overnight:



    Pretty sure the driveshaft is only a stub no matter what gearbox you fit, but .. out of interest, anyone with a T56, roughly how long is your "stub"?[/FONT][/COLOR]
    Hi Aaron,
    I fitted a T56 Magnum to an AK and it is a tight fit. From Gearbox to diff is only about 11" so if you allow for the UJs my 'stub' is about 3.5" (but it was cold in the garage!)
    Bob
    AK GenII arrived 1st April
    Let the cursing begin.........

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