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  1. #1

    Sumo Mk2 (dismantled) V6/V8

    Hi. New here.... I've recently acquired a Granada Mk2 based Pilgrim Sumo Mk2. The vehicle came mostly dismantled, and will need a lot of work to put right the poor quality of the original build. It is configured for the Ford V6 engine which I intend to replace with a Rover V8 (probably purchase from JRV8?). I'm aware that various modifications to the chassis will be necessary to accommodate the RV8. Is there any advice out there? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Paignton
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,451
    The mods I made to the chassis are welded in MK2 V8 engine moubts, moved where the steering column goes through the bulkhead, gearbox mount is different as are headers 're route electrics and fuel/ coolant hoses. I also fitted a Sierra pedal box which had a hydraulic conversion. New propshaft as well.
    Other advice is set a budget and then double it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Paignton Devon
    Posts
    320
    Agree with all that Stu e has said, if you make your own engine mounts make sure the're low enough so the bonnet can close!, ( dont ask me how I know!)
    Roger

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Northampton
    Posts
    1,065
    Quote Originally Posted by CP Sumo View Post
    ....It is configured for the Ford V6 engine which I intend to replace with a Rover V8 Is there any advice out there? Thanks.
    Hopefully you can do the work yourself - or my advice is win the ******** lottery. Guess which route I took... but I'd go for a 4.6 RV8....

    There's a whole load of things to consider, and better minds than mine will hopefully give their input. Front to back engine position, Engine wiring loom if using an ECU. New exhausts, change the gearbox, remote gearbox linkage, modified propshaft, ?upgraded diff carrier, Limited slip diff ? will the alternator need moving ? remote brake servo ? possible remote water pump, maybe new radiator.

    Hope you are better than I at the mechanicals - good luck !
    David (AKA Firestarter29)

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    8,526
    the alternator needs moving on all V8 sumo installs I think. I dont think you need to worry about a remote oil filter.
    engine position: fit your steering rack first and then put the engine as close as you can to that would be my advice.
    Wiring: stick with a carb - it should be easier to diagnose faults, unless you already have lots of experience in this area.
    LSD - you will be stuck with a MkII Granada rear end I think, unless you have a huge appetite for chassis surgery, so beware overloading it.

    You will also find your grp floor pans will foul the rear suspension. Most people used to chop up, re-glass and adapt these so that they do fit!

    If funds permit, I would recommend taking the chassis to Pilgrim to have the MkIII triangulation points added as it makes it substantially stiffer.

    Engine mounts: I would just ask Pilgrim if they can supply them - save you a lot of R&D time.

    If you have a car with external door handles, I would strongly recommend just filling these in when you come to paint - it screams Sumo, and will affect re-sale price.

    Good luck!
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

    Not listed in the Shelby Register.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    South of Winchester
    Posts
    171
    Is it registered, through IVA, or whatever was in place at the time? Once through this hurdle, then you can do what you want/what your budget/appetite for grief allows - most of which turn out to take much longer than the 'reasonable-man' could possibly imagine

    Phil

  7. #7
    Hi. Thanks for all the replies, and apologies for not responding sooner (I've not been able to access my account). Will digest messages received - I'm sure there will be more questions.....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    My Garage
    Posts
    949
    My first Cob Had a Ford V6 and once tuned ran like shxt off a shovel. Still sounded good too. Good luck though if your swapping to a V8, Its a pain
    MKIII Pilgrim Sumo. 3.5 Litre Rover V8 Towing an Eriba Puck Caravan



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    South of Winchester
    Posts
    171
    Ford BOA or BOB would give you the HP - 4ltrRV8 is only 200HP stock whereas the BOA/BOB gives more and will go straight in place of a V6 Cologne.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    1,101
    As others have done on here, mine went mk2 2.8 v6 to rv8 (a 4.6)... So here's my short list of jobs & notes for you:

    Be warned that a stock 3.5 rv8 wont make much more power than a 2.8 v6 in good nick. And yes, JRV8 has a fantastic reputation on here. You have to spend a lot of money on a 3.5 to get anywhere near the grunt a standard 4.6rv8 has... The cossie v6 is a genuine hidden gem, a beautiful engine, and a bargain on a £ per BHP compared to the ancient rv8. However, you'll still have to do most of the jobs in this list and most of the cost if you change to a cossie (engine management etc...). A standard type 9 box is borderline behind a cossie, although you might be fine.

    Fuel injection is the devils work, along with microwave ovens, socialism and BF goodrich tyres. Go carb.

    Granny mk2 rear end is fine to take 300bhp+ power (if you have cortina rear end however, it absolutely, definitely will not)...

    New headers.

    RV8 will need - LT77, R380 or World class T5 gearbox (in order of desirability & cost). Watch out for LDV van spec LT77's (duff ratios), a good lt77 is better than a duff R380, and apparently T5's are all made of gold and the tears of popstars.

    Whatever box, you may find you need a set back/forward remote (mine uses stock remote, possibly because I have a flat bottomed dash so my knuckles dont foul the dash in 3rd gear. Gerry at Hawk cars will sell short remotes).

    Standard pedal box and servo recommended by Pilgrim is the Morris Marina dual circuit. There are none of these left. The Ford servo you may already have will foul an rv8. Personally if I did it again I would go for a brand new pedalbox from the likes of OBP off the shelf and go unservoed brakes like GD do.

    However, with an rv8 & box in a sumo the hydraulic clutch conversion is very worthwhile, I gather the cable version is a bit hard work and prone to snapping.

    Jacking up the rear of the car will make it easier to slot engine & box in & out.

    New prop (surprisingly reasonable to get a custom prop made).

    New engine mounts. Use the double biscuit type range rover engine bobbins anything more squidgy and it'll rock like a spotty teenager at reading festival.

    Mine did need a remote oil filter, mocal stuff is good..

    Mine has cobra cam covers, which look pretty but needed a phenolic spacer under the eddy carb to clear (spacer is usually needed on all rv8's to stop fuel boiling/hot starting issue in the carb anyway). The combination of the two in mine meant fouling the bonnet/scoop, badly. I had to fabricate a new air cleaner from scratch to get something that would flow well (I posted a few pics somewhere on here). And yes, I know, I keep on mentioning my air cleaner and I don't care. I show pictures of it to people at parties. Even if they didn't ask.

    New headers. Surprisingly expensive.

    Fit front spotlights/all of the stickers & race numbers/white lettering tyres/remove all silencing. This has nothing to do with the engine swap.

    New rad/rad mounts/fan/thermostat/header tank. Put some thought/research into your coolant system layout, the original pilgrim suggestion in the rv8 chassis build manual wasnt a good solution.

    New gearbox mount

    External fuel pump (facet red top or similar)

    Reinforcing the front of the chassis as a minimum is very well worthwhile - even better if you can get it braced throughout. Mine has bracing included with a re-enginereed bonnet slam panel to move the radiator mount forward in to the nose cone. In combination with decent tyres (do not use BFG) this transformed the handling of my car.

    Coilovers at the rear makes sense and is do-able (mk2's all sit a bit high and feel a bit hard normally). Coilovers at the cortina/granny hybrid front is borderline with the cortina lower arms, custom only - personally I wouldn't bother, just get custom springs made up once you have a baseline. Mind you, I spent several months swearing trying to sort out my ride height problem so what do I know (it was caused by cross weighting).

    Check your guages can handle a swap from 6 cylinders signal to 8, if not then buy new ones (I'd guess they can though, usually a switch on the back).

    All the above assumes your car is already correctly road registered. You have an entirely different kettle of fish if it isnt.

    Hope I haven't put you off. Plenty on here have done this swap. certainly easier to do it with a dismantled car.

    It is worth it. Just not in financial terms.

    Alex

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