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  1. #451
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    Bah, can't edit. Apologies if that came across hash .. I seem to have reached the end of my tether with the car, work, covid etc and have gained a ridiculously short fuse. I'd take a holiday but seeing as we've banned those for the foreseeable..
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  2. #452
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    cheshire
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    1,402
    Aaron, if you say there are crank reference marks on the rear face then you know you must be right, if the bolts are that tight, can you not get a couple of threads in before the bolt un-threaded shank starts to hit the flywheel? Once the threads are all in then tighten them down by 1/4 turn in a rotational pattern? this may pull the flywheel round to line up. of all the flywheels i have fitted none have been that tight.
    .............never drive faster than your guardian angel.

    cobraclub.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/633 - this is the link to my build photo's you have to put w w w . h t t p : / / in front of it!!

  3. #453
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    NW England
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    664
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    Bah, can't edit. Apologies if that came across hash .. I seem to have reached the end of my tether with the car, work, covid etc and have gained a ridiculously short fuse. I'd take a holiday but seeing as we've banned those for the foreseeable..

    Don't worry about it, I know the feeling, been there many times myself and I have quite a thick skin these days.
    I may not be completely understanding what your are doing or where you are measuring, it doesn't help as the DTI does not appear to be attached in your earlier photos (or am I missing it somehow), so apologies if I'm talking out of turn.
    What I'm assuming is that you have the DTI fixed to your mag' base located on the crank end (or flywheel) with the stylus touching the rear face of the bell? You are then rotating the crank while watching the pointer on the DTI.

    This is what I don't understand:
    You have some tape on the rear face of the bell, most of this is on the lower side and there are numerous pieces of different sized tape (hence possibly different thicknesses). If you run the stylus over the tape the reading will move by the tape thickness, I know it's not very thick but you are only looking at a small deviation. I'd probably get sacked for doing that in my job!
    I understand why you may do that, to stop the stylus dropping into th holes and disturbing either the DTI or the mag' base setup, but if you really must do it that way why not cover the whole face with a consistent layer of tape, laid side by side so no overlaps or gaps. This way at least you'd have a (hopefully) consistent covering. Still not very good practice IMO but should be an improvement, obviously you can't take any readings when the stylus is over a hole.


    Did I understand correctly from previous posts that you have a milling machine?
    Coudn't you use that to measure the parallelism of the bellhousing?

  4. #454
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Every time I remember to take a picture of the setup I had, it's right after I've just dismantled the indicator bases to try another combination, d'oh!

    What I'm assuming is that you have the DTI fixed to your mag' base located on the crank end (or flywheel) with the stylus touching the rear face of the bell? You are then rotating the crank while watching the pointer on the DTI.
    Yup - correct. It was the crank end before - I finally succeeded in getting the ridiculously tight fitting flywheel back on now, so more recently the flywheel (which, granted, could introduce error if it had any significant run-out)

    This is what I don't understand:
    You have some tape on the rear face of the bell, most of this is on the lower side and there are numerous pieces of different sized tape (hence possibly different thicknesses). If you run the stylus over the tape the reading will move by the tape thickness, I know it's not very thick but you are only looking at a small deviation. I'd probably get sacked for doing that in my job!
    You're right, they're there just to stop the indicator falling into the hole, I'm not actually taking readings while the indicator is on the tape (it's a single layer of packing tape, which I can now tell you is about 0.004" thick having effectively measured it a number of times! The idea being that (assuming everything was completely bob on) the indicator would read 0.000" before the tape and 0.000" after the tape, and I'm ignoring anything on the tape.

    I've actually since:
    a) Invested in a good DTI (Mitutoyo - it'll get used on the mill & lathe anyway and I've wanted a decent one for a while)
    b) Bought a set of "thumb tack" spherical contact points for it

    Now I can set the pre-load on the DTI to about 0.10mm (it's metric, so .. lots of conversions in my head!) and then the indicator just 'clicks' as it falls off one edge and 'clicks' as it rides back up the other side of the hole - no tape required.

    Re-did the indicating and ended up with 0.25mm on the lower right bolt, 0.10mm lower left, tapering off to 0.00mm as you go up. That got it within 0.05mm TIR (0.002", or spec).

    However.. I then went and watched this Holley video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5U7evTSeA

    They make the point about ensuring that your block plate isn't fouling anything on the back of the block and that it sits perfectly flat .. my block plate is pushed out slightly by the slightly domed cam end galley plug, so I'm going to pull the flywheel (again, and I'd just used loctite on the bolts as well, balls!) to clearance it for the cam cap as I did for the oil galley plugs, to ensure it isn't making the bell housing sit off anywhere.

    Then I'll do it all again..

    Mean time I also ordered the RM-130 plate (as seen in that video) which will get rid of the problem of holes in the bell housing as well as trying to snake an indicator up the 4" primary shaft collar in the gearbox end casing. Ordered a set of offset dowels from RobbMc Performance although since small outfits no longer ship to the UK thanks to HMRC wanting them to collect VAT, I had to do that by having them sent to my boss in Texas first..



    ... In other news, the new alternator arrived and fits like a glove, so that's one problem sorted. Just need to finish the wiring for it once the engine is back in the car (shorten to length & fit terminals and boots etc).

    I feel tantalisingly close to getting the engine & box back in the car, yet also so far!
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  5. #455
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Oxford
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    1,149
    Come on, chop chop
    Classic Replica Viper currently in build

  6. #456
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    NW England
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    664
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    I finally succeeded in getting the ridiculously tight fitting flywheel back on now, so more recently the flywheel (which, granted, could introduce error if it had any significant run-out)
    For the purpose if this test I don't think the accuracy of your flywheel mounting is going to make any difference, that axis of rotation is your crank centre you could have anything between your crank and the DTI and the stylus will still be rotating on this axis.
    Obvious it would be an issue if you tried to run the car like that!



    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post

    You're right, they're there just to stop the indicator falling into the hole, I'm not actually taking readings while the indicator is on the tape (it's a single layer of packing tape, which I can now tell you is about 0.004" thick having effectively measured it a number of times! The idea being that (assuming everything was completely bob on) the indicator would read 0.000" before the tape and 0.000" after the tape, and I'm ignoring anything on the tape.

    That would make sense except that looking at the photo most of the lower part of the gearbox mount face is obscured by tape so you'll be missing a lot of information.






    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post

    I've actually since:
    a) Invested in a good DTI (Mitutoyo - it'll get used on the mill & lathe anyway and I've wanted a decent one for a while)
    b) Bought a set of "thumb tack" spherical contact points for it

    Now I can set the pre-load on the DTI to about 0.10mm (it's metric, so .. lots of conversions in my head!) and then the indicator just 'clicks' as it falls off one edge and 'clicks' as it rides back up the other side of the hole - no tape required.

    Re-did the indicating and ended up with 0.25mm on the lower right bolt, 0.10mm lower left, tapering off to 0.00mm as you go up. That got it within 0.05mm TIR (0.002", or spec).


    Oh dear, how times have changed! I remember when any engineer would take a Verdict over the Mitutoyo any day.

    I'd be more interested in the readings you got when measuring the rear face rather than what you did to correct it to be honest


    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post

    However.. I then went and watched this Holley video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5U7evTSeA

    They make the point about ensuring that your block plate isn't fouling anything on the back of the block and that it sits perfectly flat .. my block plate is pushed out slightly by the slightly domed cam end galley plug, so I'm going to pull the flywheel (again, and I'd just used loctite on the bolts as well, balls!) to clearance it for the cam cap as I did for the oil galley plugs, to ensure it isn't making the bell housing sit off anywhere.



    I must admit I took it as a given that you would have made sure the mounting was good and flat. Although it does reinforce what I was trying to say about measuring the component independently first to see if that is where the error is.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDCobra View Post
    That would make sense except that looking at the photo most of the lower part of the gearbox mount face is obscured by tape so you'll be missing a lot of information.
    I honestly don't think I'm missing as much information as you think I am:



    As you can see - there is no bell housing under where the tape was.. that's the clutch fork hole which extends right through the mating face.


    Anyway, a new problem presents itself. As you may recall, I was following the procedures outlined here: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ousing-dial-in

    Which means taking the front housing off the gearbox in order to use the bearing race to measure off .. having given up on that and ordered the "dial in plate" from QuickTime, I put the front housing back on the gearbox today. In the time it has been off I haven't even been in the workshop it lived in, and I was fastidious in ensuring that nothing had moved, the gear lever remained in neutral, input shaft didn't drop off etc.

    Only now the gearbox appears to be stuck in gear - the input shaft is incredibly hard to turn (almost impossible) and the output shaft always turns in unison; if you can get it to select a gear it then locks absolutely solid. It appears I may now need to get my brand new, very expensive gearbox, rebuilt, if I can't figure out what the problem is!

    Going to have to try this next: https://americanpowertrain.com/shift...e-is-the-cure/
    Last edited by aaronjb; 27-03-21 at 06:29 PM.
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  8. #458
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    Nope, that was a bust, mechanism is totally different between the TKO and T56.

  9. #459
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
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    47
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    607
    I don't know the specifics of your gearbox, but if you have ensured nothing has moved. Could be as simple as one bolt is longer than the others and in the wrong hole is applying pressure to something inside?

  10. #460
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    Sadly no - 11 identical bolts and they all go through through holes to the outside (if you see what I mean), but something is definitely jammed, that's for sure, so maybe something out of alignment when the case went back on (although the end case went back on fine with no obvious impediment and no force required) :/
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

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