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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
    Age
    46
    Posts
    474

    If Carlsberg did a Pilgrim

    Now that I’m able to post pictures I will start a build thread, but it won’t be in a build sequence.

    So, back in January I finally got around to sorting the rear toe and camber on my pilgrim.

    I started off by raising it up on my tilt lift and setting the chassis level.



    To fine the center line of the car I used a self leveling laser as a plum bob transferred all the suspension mounting points to the floor. Measured between them and marked the center, then drew diagonal lines between them.

    I then marked a center line though both sets of marks that gave me the center line of the car. Which I transferred onto the garage door.
    I fitted both the rear swing arms with only the shock absorber fitted (without springs). Which allowed me to go between full droop and full bump without any effort. The machined face of the swing arm is the same as the wheel face.

    I worked out what position I wanted ride height to be with my wheel and tire choice. I hung the outer part of the swing arm at ride height from the chassis with a cable tie.

    I measured the distance from the center of the rear wheel to my garage door. Clamped a laser to the machined face of the arm and measured the distance from the center line to the laser dot. Used these to workout 0.5 degrees toe in and marked this on the garage door.

    Place a small magnetic inclinometer (calibrated to the chassis) on the mounting face next to the laser.




    The camber was at ride height was negative 1.3 deg and toe was 1.4 deg combined toe out, but not equal. N/S was more than O/S.

    I then removed the bolts from the swing arm and using small wood wedges and clamps. I was able set the camber to zero degrees and 0.5 degrees toe in at ride height with splitting the difference between both mounting points. Instead of only altering one, which would cause the other bolt/bush to be twisted slightly. Using this method was very easy to do, as you can see what’s happening in both planes. One small movement alters both readings and if you get it wrong, you can just move it back.

    Then by looking though the mounting holes you can see the `hole in the bush and mark where the mounting hole needs adjusting/slotting. With the swing arm hanging on the just the damper it can be swung out the way and the holes adjusted with an air die grinder with a carbide burr. I made 4 plates with a 12mm hole, cleaned the galv from the outside of the mounting points. Fitted the bolts back in the swing arm with the plates on as well. Set it all up again and tack welded the plates in place.

    Then done the same on the opposite side and checked it all together combined, all ok.

    Next was to trial fit the drive shafts and rear hubs.

    Originally my car was sierra based with rear drum brakes, I acquired a LSD, driveshafts, rear hubs disc and front hubs from a Cosworth Scorpio. I now find out I wrongly assumed the rear swing arms arm the same on both vehicles.

    Firstly, when fitting the rear hubs and driveshafts from the Granada, the swing arm doesn’t have enough clearance for the 100mm CV joint. The areas marked had to be cut and indented to give clearance around CV joint and will be welded up afterwards.

    Drilled holes at the ends then cut along the lines with the plasma.




    Now the driveshafts go in except for the second issue, which ill go into later as you’ll find out.

    Got my 17” 407 smooth wheels from vintage in the states out of the loft, where they have been for a year to get the tires mounted.






    Decided to see what they looked like, fitted a rear wheel.




    Big problem they stick out past the wheel arch?????????

    Checked all the wheels dimensions and found out the rear wheels have been made with 31mm less back space than was ordered.

    Contacted Bob at vintage and he said let him look into it, a few days later he got back to me. The build sheet for the wheels had it wrote down wrong and what address did I want the wheels collected from? Considering it was a year ago when I got them and I just looked them over, then put them in the loft so not to get damaged. A great service from vintage wheels.

    In the meantime, whilst I was waiting for Bobs rely. I explored what also other options I had. I like the dish on the wheels I have and looking at the swing arm I decided the mounting plate can be removed then a section cut out and the mounting plate rewelded, in effect narrowing the rear end.

    BerrisFord do a bespoke 25 spline driveshaft any length for £200 + postage. £400 + postage for a pair.

    I spoke with Bob over my idea and what discount he could offer to use these wheels. He offered £300 to which I’m happy with and this is the route I’ve gone down.
    Got the tyres mounted and this is how they look without any alterations.






    The tyres hit the rear arch.
    Even checked the camber and toe in with the hub and wheel now temp fitted. All ok.




    On my next post I’ll cover the altering of the rear swing arms and the second issue with sierra/Granada swaps.

    Don’t worry everything’s going to plan, except the plan!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lanarks
    Age
    64
    Posts
    387
    Just be careful those wheels (on shorter driveshafts)tuck under the arches
    at the 2 critical points 30degree forward and 50degree rearwards.

    If my interpretation of the wheel guard regulation is correct then
    place a board against the wheel and look down to see if there is any gaps
    at those 2 points.

    All the best with your build


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
    Age
    46
    Posts
    474
    Shortening the rear swing arms, I know the plates face the rear hubs attached to are correct for camber and toe at the ride height I set. So, I just needed to cut them back parallel. I packed it up on a flat surface and used a self-levelling laser to mark all around.





    I refitted it to the car and tacked the plate back on with toe and camber set as previous. Then trial fitted the wheel and after some measuring decided I could shorten them a bit more which made a difference to having custom driveshafts made.



    When setting it all up you can see here where I had to add extra plate to mate to the swing arm. The red line id where the original hub plate finished.



    Now that both sides have been shortened by 38mm aside and at ride height 0.5 deg toe in, 0 deg camber. Then welded and fitted to be rechecked. All ok and well within the IVA requirements.



    Clearance under the arch.




  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
    Age
    46
    Posts
    474
    Driveshafts –

    Sierra driveshafts have a circlip either side of the CV joints

    Granada driveshafts have one circlip on the outside of the CV joints and shoulder on the inside.

    Both Sierra and Granada the O/S driveshaft is 40mm longer than the N/S.

    Granada driveshafts are 6mm longer than the Sierra ones, as the Granada rear swing arm plates used for the hubs are 6mm thicker due to the ABS sensor.

    Now for the weird bit- The Sierra shafts are longer in length, but the shorter Granada shafts are the longer driveshaft.







    On the Granada shafts even though they are shorter in length the distance between the inner shoulders is 6mm longer.

    The standard CV joints have a tolerance of +/- 8mm each, so +/- 16mm aside.

    On the Sumo it only changes by a couple of mm though the suspension travel.

    This allowed me to use the N/S Sierra shaft as the O/S shaft. (why I took a bit more off)

    It was 2mm longer than perfect, so each CV is + 1mm, well within its tolerance.

    So I only had to get one custom length shaft made for the N/S, until I found this!


    Granada 2.9 MK 3 (1985-1995) – 426mm between CV joints.






    This works out 2mm longer than perfect, so each CV is + 1mm, well within its tolerance.

    How lucky is that! Only costs new £35 inc postage.

    So that part is all sorted now.

    Remember this photo earlier –



    This shows an issue all Sumos have, Sidecar Pete told me about this years back. So, I was expecting it.

    You have to look close!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    cheshire
    Posts
    1,326
    ................mmmmmmmmm - brakes hitting the chassis?
    .............never drive faster than your guardian angel.

    cobraclub.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/633 - this is the link to my build photo's you have to put w w w . h t t p : / / in front of it!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    poland krk
    Age
    39
    Posts
    399
    Have you compared the vertical distance between top of arc and top of door on both sides? My was about inch different.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
    Age
    46
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by aaannnd View Post
    Have you compared the vertical distance between top of arc and top of door on both sides? My was about inch different.

    All my measurement were taken from the chassis and also using a self leveling horizontal laser. Apart from aesthetic appearance for ride height, I wouldn't use the body as a reference point for suspension setup. As we all know one side doesn't always match the other. I assume you are referring to top of the rear wheel arch to top of door?

    I've just checked mine, all ok mines a MK3 body?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
    Age
    46
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by 427jlc View Post
    ................mmmmmmmmm - brakes hitting the chassis?


    That’s not it, but you’re not wrong I had to make clearance for the caliper. I did move the calipers into a trailing position just for aesthetic appearance. Which involved swapping N/S to O/S so the bleed nipple is at the top and using one original mount, with a new one on the swing arm.

    This photo shows it a bit better –



    It was sidecar Pete who said all Pilgrims that have a decent ride height are riding on their bump stops!

    To have suspension most have the spring wound up and have about a 40mm gap between the arch and tyre.



    I set my ride height with the top of the tyre level with the arch and it still gives you 155mm ground clearance on the rear. You just have to fix the rear suspension!

    I decided to separate suspension and ride height. Saw this setup on Speed is the new black. Photos from the tv.







    Looks like ½” adjustments. I decided on a different solution. I had some M20 12.9 structural anchors. Cut them down machined them for a plug weld and fillet weld around the top.




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    liverpool
    Age
    46
    Posts
    474
    Fabricated brackets to match the coil over and welded them onto the studs. Made a couple of strut towers to suit.










    This will allow me to adjust suspension on the coil over and ride height by a 13mm socket on the stud, then lock it off with a M20 nyloc nut.

    I assume when I start driving it I might find the spring rate isn't correct as it was designed to do both jobs?
    Last edited by philbrad73; 05-05-20 at 11:23 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Northampton
    Posts
    1,671
    Love that colour-red. What is it?
    Dek

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