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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
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    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    I actually have a little painting project in mind before the Cobra - the lacquer is peeling on the BMW around the headlamp washer jets (they all seem to go there).. if I could just figure out what colour I need (the colour code tag seems to have gone AWOL between 2006 and now, and the dealers have been largely unavailable until recently due to you-know-what) And then I have a spare bonnet I can prep and play with.. don't fancy a trip oop norf for some training, do you, David? (Again, maybe once you-know-what has died down!)

    I originally thought of black, but I know shiny black is a bugger to get right.. so was considering the Essex Wire colours (white car, black stripes, black "brightwork").

    I have two compressors (one twin cylinder 100L and one single cylinder 25L), so an air-fed mask isn't a big problem.. don't know for sure the 100L twin would keep up with spraying as I haven't tried yet
    Your BM will be a base coat and clear, leave it alone until you have got some finger time in on a gun is solid colours.
    If you are selling it there are a few tricks I can pass on. Its like a scab, don't pick it you will make it worse.

    Black, your first paint job black, really, I said I would never have a black car after doing so many customers cars, guess what colour mine is, its the only colour a cob should be.
    Howeverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, it doesn't matter a toss how old the GRP is, how much your mate, my mate, bloke down the road baked the car, he didn't put it thru several hot summers in black.
    The body will move, you will cry, however when you clean it and stand back you will know why you painted it black.

    Black isn't any more difficult to paint than any other colour, however prep, if you want it right will be another 25% min more.

    I'm sure I can road trip one day.

    Sell some spare parts, I will post the min compressor you need, don't worry its all affordable.
    The ones you have may struggle. Keep one for the air fed.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
    Posts
    1,634
    Forget the bonnet to practise on, it’s too big.
    Get some motorbike bits, a tank, side panels etc.
    Nice size, won’t use much material, you won’t get bored flatting them, will get nice gloss from the gun.
    Don't worry about finish as in peel ( orange peel most modern cars suffer from ) that can be attributed to in lots of cases to air caps and gun design.
    You can block a lot of peel out, but get the product on first.
    You won’t want to buy an expensive gun just to play with, you could get a reasonable finish from a £30 flea bay gun to start, Fast Mover do a fairly good cheap range, in fact I use them for my polyester guns.
    Forget about a Dev gun for a one off, unless you are loaded, the air caps alone are £75 ish each.

    Also if you cock it up its not much to strip and sand back to have another go.


    Last black paint work, Honda Goldwing, 1970 ish.
    Devilbiss GTi Pro with a T110 air cap, gun finish below.



    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hjTmgY]
    Flat and polish clear over graphics

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hjSPSX]

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hjUFpo]

    Have a go, you will be fine, you have done a cracking job so far, you can do it.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
    Age
    41
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    4,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Nova Scotia is further south than the UK.
    True, but it's also part of the frozen wasteland of Canuckistan, so must surely be cold and dark year round*

    (*I'm joking, this is just how AvE of YouTube fame describes it - he's got a specific sense of humour, but makes great engineering videos)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblock View Post
    Forget the bonnet to practise on, it’s too big.
    Get some motorbike bits, a tank, side panels etc.
    I nearly asked what all the cracks/bits were in one picture .. until I realised that was a reflection of the parts hanger! That's some very, very shiny black there David

    Still.. I should finish the oily mechanical bits first! So back to pictures of blue cobras for this thread I suppose

    Your BM will be a base coat and clear, leave it alone until you have got some finger time in on a gun is solid colours.
    If you are selling it there are a few tricks I can pass on. Its like a scab, don't pick it you will make it worse.


    Oh almost forgot - yep, it's a very dark blue (almost black) metallic, so probably a nightmare to match. Not selling, I just want to stop the lacquer from peeling any further when it's washed etc - it's a keeper for the foreseeable (unless I win the lottery!)
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Peak District
    Posts
    257
    My attempt at painting the cobra was in Black (Audi Brilliant Black ) and i must admit, it wasn't easy to achive a decent finish. I take my hat off to David for such a good finish.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    cheshire
    Posts
    1,337
    Aaron, same as my X5, described as Schwartz black code is 416, looks blue in the sunlight black in the shade!

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lanarks
    Age
    64
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    don't know for sure the 100L twin would keep up with spraying as I haven't tried yet
    My 48Kg gas bottle compressor keeps up fine now that it has a BigBlock 2HP motor.
    Originally made it up with a little 1 HP motor which was fine for small repairs.



    Doors on - boot on - bonnet on
    Stripes to be white - she told me!

    This was the finish I got straight from the gun.
    Not cut it back and polished it.....doubt I will as I'm quite content with it as is.
    But hey....it didn't cost £10k and I'm not scared of stonechips or scratches.







  7. #97
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
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    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post



    Oh almost forgot - yep, it's a very dark blue (almost black) metallic, so probably a nightmare to match. Not selling, I just want to stop the lacquer from peeling any further when it's washed etc - it's a keeper for the foreseeable (unless I win the lottery!) [/COLOR]
    Dark met very easy to paint and blend, all dark metallic fairly easy.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    8,930
    Nice work Drammy.

    Dave - so my understanding is that grp is unstable, and the best way to try to stabilise the car pre- and during prep is to bake it a few times.
    Certainly my old Sumo had filler that movd aftre a day in the sun at the Goodwood FoS (paint with no bake).
    The paint shop guy at Pilgrim was telling me that his method involves an initial bake to burst the bubbles round the seams, apply filler, sand bank , then filler then bake again then go for final prep and wheen all done anothe bake to make sure anything new doesnt move.
    Then the car would be ready for paint. I guess that's why its expensive. So how do you minimise th issue ona homee paint job?
    Some time ago i think you suggested rattle can the car matt black and leave in the sun for a few hot days - i guess this s the equivalent of a low bake oven.
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

    Not listed in the Shelby Register.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    Nice work Drammy.

    Dave - so my understanding is that grp is unstable, and the best way to try to stabilise the car pre- and during prep is to bake it a few times.
    Certainly my old Sumo had filler that movd aftre a day in the sun at the Goodwood FoS (paint with no bake).
    The paint shop guy at Pilgrim was telling me that his method involves an initial bake to burst the bubbles round the seams, apply filler, sand bank , then filler then bake again then go for final prep and wheen all done anothe bake to make sure anything new doesnt move.
    Then the car would be ready for paint. I guess that's why its expensive. So how do you minimise th issue ona homee paint job?
    Some time ago i think you suggested rattle can the car matt black and leave in the sun for a few hot days - i guess this s the equivalent of a low bake oven.
    A few questions there, ok let’s deal with what we know.
    2K paint, twin pack, call it what you like but it is the best and I wouldn't put anything else on and I wouldn't allow anything else on my cars, so for the discussion we are dealing with this product.
    2K will dry regardless of an oven, environmental chamber should be the correct term, its a chemical reaction, anybody tells you it has to be painted in an oven is talking crap and you should tell them that.

    An oven, many types, ours was a cross draft, nice new stuff are positive pressure down draft, ££££££££, does several things, captures the dust and over spray that doesn't stick to your car, stops it harming polar bears and the environment, helps keep a nice dust, fly, spider, shit in the air, pollen clean environment etc, helps this stop landing on your car while the 2K is wet, big also, once I have finished painting I crank it up to 60 degrees for 20 minutes, and hey presto the paint is good enough for the car to be fitted up and out the door. That's the main reason, clean job, quick to dry and out the door, this means more cars thru a very expensive to run chamber which is more money for the business and boss.

    Also, and I'm not saying lots do, paint the car last thing of the day in the booth, turn the lights off and go home. This weather next morning the car is ready to fit up, save a fortune in elec or gas running the oven. Loads will do this, so don't think just because someone told you they paint it in the oven it actually gets baked. Also something to think about, oven and cooking don't mean shit if you are going to do a decent flat and polish, you can’t bake for 20 min then flat and polish, well you can but it will sink and look like someone has run a brillo pad over it after 6 months or so. Min week or 2, even I would begin to flat, so why waste baking it when it needs leaving?

    On to Kev's questions, you are not going to stop a GRP car moving ever, forget it. It’s not inherently unstable, but it is a medium that has been cured. Coefficient of expansion comes into play, along with lay-up thickness, bonding to reinforcing items, metal etc, coefficient of expansion on a very hot day, GRP wants to move, the metal isn’t going to, bulkheads, inner arches, all bonded at say 90 degrees to the body, all want to expand different ways, GRP layup is thicker here because it has to, you are never going to stop it moving. Then you chuck a load of CGP and filler in and on it, all expand and contract at different rates. It all pulls in different directions, then more or less returns to its cured state, however the movement will show up in the paint now, very slightly but it will move and show.

    Once it’s been in the sun and out and about for a while yes, it will move less and less, but it isn’t going to stop. If you don’t want this problem then stop reading now and go and buy one of Dave Brooks wonderful alloy cars and paint that, still going to want a shit load of work to get a black finish looking flawless but it will stay like that.

    Baking to get air pockets in the gel coat to burst ?, the bloke doesn’t put much faith in his gel coat then, or it’s so thin to keep the cost down it isn’t worth having, or the gel must be like bubble wrap.
    Just hit the seams with an 80 grit long blade then pick out any your see and feel with a scriber.
    If they say you have to bake a car for the grp to stop moving or be totally cured then it was taken out of the mould too early and it wasn’t ready to come out.
    If you have the time and we have the weather then yes, paint the body black quickly, and get it out in the sun as much as possible, not the best but think about dark coloured cars in the sun.
    Home painting? given it takes most 3-5 years to get kit cars ready to paint, if the body hasn’t sorted its self out more or less by then baking it isn’t got to make a shit bit of difference at this stage. Your cars will have spent 3-5 years in a nice cool garage, little bit of sun perhaps. Now it’s painted and shiny, the first year you drive it it’s going to every show possible, and usually parked out in a field in the bright sunlight, UV cooking away at it for hours on end, so fecking hot your girlfriend, wife, spare bit you took to the show etc burns their arse on it when they come back and lean on it to get that photo taken.

    To sum it up really, the body will move, some a little some a lot, the darker the colour the more it will move. Not immediately, nothing drastic, but it will move and you will notice eventually. If think theirs hasn’t then it hasn’t been driven in the sun for long or they are looking at it thru rose tinted testicles.

    Caveat
    This is just one person’s view on the subject after doing this for the best part of 40 years, there are others out there and we all have different ways and thoughts, and if you are happy then this is all that matters in this life.

    Cheers boys and girls

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    West Sussex
    Age
    62
    Posts
    211
    Fantastic write up. I do love it when someone says it like it is, down to earth and correct. I prepped and painted my own cob in black 2k solid colour not base and clear. Loved the prep which is all the job really. Is it perfect no, good enough and didn't cost a small fortune yes.

    Baz

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