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  1. #1
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    LED Classic headlamp upgrade.

    As one of my head light units is now in several pieces, rather than just replace it with another Wipac Quadoptic unit, and keep the standard H4 55/60 halogen bulb, which as some of you guys pointed out ,produces a poor light and beam pattern, I wondered if anyone has fitted these https://www.bowerspartsonline.co.uk/...adlamp-upgrade and if so how do they compare to the standard setup.

    Or I was also wondering about swapping to Cibie H180 units ,which according to a lot of forums and reviews I have read produce a far better beam pattern to the Wipac unit, and then either fit one of the high output halogen bulbs ,from Osram or PIAA ,or preferably one of the latest branded makes of LED bulb ,such as Osram, Phillips or Twent20, which are properly designed LED bulbs that have their LED chips in the same place as the filament of the original bulb, so that the light source is correctly aligned within the reflector ,which is critical .

    Although HID kits are the brightest upgrades you can get, I don’t want to go down that route.
    Paul.

    AK Huddart Chevy 383 Stroker, BMW Royal Grey Metal Metallic , 5 speed Jaguar Getrag , Holley 670cfm 4 barrel street Avenger Carb, 450 BHP at flywheel , 460 Ibs/ft torque, and luvin it !

    " We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing" - George Bernard Shaw.

  2. #2
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    Hi Paul, this has been covered before on here, re: LED/HID/Halogen. You need to know the lumen output of the LED bulbs you want to use. Anything over 2000 I think it is (my previous posts on the subject will find the actual regs) and you will need self leveling and washers regardless of how the bulb aligns on the holder. Below the limit then sounds good!

    Here you go - I found it http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showt...LED+headlights

    Actually reading it again the lumens level only applies to washer requirement, leveling is mandatory if they are LED full stop.

    HTH
    Last edited by Andy302; 29-07-20 at 03:18 PM.
    Andy

    Ford 302 336 BHP 331 ft/lb's , GD JAG249 rolling!!
    Engine started August 2011.
    1st Daughter slows progress!

    www.andysgd427.blogspot.com

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy302 View Post
    Hi Paul, this has been covered before on here, re: LED/HID/Halogen. You need to know the lumen output of the LED bulbs you want to use. Anything over 2000 I think it is (my previous posts on the subject will find the actual regs) and you will need self leveling and washers regardless of how the bulb aligns on the holder. Below the limit then sounds good!

    Here you go - I found it http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showt...LED+headlights

    Actually reading it again the lumens level only applies to washer requirement, leveling is mandatory if they are LED full stop.

    HTH
    Hi Andy, are these IVA regs and do they only apply to new builds .
    Paul.

    AK Huddart Chevy 383 Stroker, BMW Royal Grey Metal Metallic , 5 speed Jaguar Getrag , Holley 670cfm 4 barrel street Avenger Carb, 450 BHP at flywheel , 460 Ibs/ft torque, and luvin it !

    " We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing" - George Bernard Shaw.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy302 View Post
    Hi Paul, this has been covered before on here, re: LED/HID/Halogen. You need to know the lumen output of the LED bulbs you want to use. Anything over 2000 I think it is (my previous posts on the subject will find the actual regs) and you will need self leveling and washers regardless of how the bulb aligns on the holder. Below the limit then sounds good!

    Here you go - I found it http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showt...LED+headlights

    Actually reading it again the lumens level only applies to washer requirement, leveling is mandatory if they are LED full stop.

    HTH
    I think there is some confusion between Halogen, LED and HID Xenon.

    Here is the Department of Transport info concerning HID Xenon https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-hid-headlamps
    This comments on self levelling and cleaning but doesn't say anything about light output.

    Here is the MOT requirements https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...#section-4-1-4
    This is very interesting. Note the following

    Page 2 defines a "light source" as any bulb, LED or other means of emitting light. (LED's allowed?)
    Page 7 says that the lamps must emit light of the same intensity and colour, no limit stated.
    Page 7 also states conversion HID bulbs is not allowed. No mention of LED
    Page 8 does state that vehicles with HID or LED dipped beams may be fitted with a self levelling system and if the system is fitted it must work. This suggests that if the vehicle is NOT equipped with a levelling system then LED lights are okay as long as the beam pattern and alignment is okay.
    Ref Headlamp cleaning. If fitted it has to work with LED's and HID. If not fitted then not a failure.

    Andy,
    Before you replied to my post, I had actually discovered the LED lamps https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/col...=8239030763615. being sold by “Classic Car LED’s”, that were mentioned within the post you added a link to, and I had already chatted to a guy called Duncan ,who owns “Classic car LED’s” ,who I think Kevin referred to , who was very knowledgeable and honest on the subject and said these LED lamps produce the same lumen output as HID lamps and basically said that there is currently no legislation on LED bulbs because they are so new, but as they have no “E” markings , they are technically illegal , but will pass an MOT ,because they have been designed to mimic exactly the size and design of the existing H4 halogen bulb, which means the LED chips are in exactly the same place ,so that the light source is In the correct position relative to reflector. If you look at an enlarged image of the LED in the attached link, you can see graduations around the base, which allow you to twist the bulb round in order to get the beam pattern perfectly level. He also said that he has fitted these LED’s inside the Lucas head lamp unit which utilizes a smooth reflector and the optics type lens and uses them in his own cars .He said he has never had anyone flash him as they produce the correct beam pattern, ie Step, Hotspot and cut-off, which extends further and brighter than the high output halogen lamps being sold.
    Apparently Valeo bought out Cibie and they no longer sell the Cibie H180 lamps, so as these LED lamps produce more light than the high power halogen lamps, I am very temped to give the Lucas headlamp /LED bulb combination a try as they should pass the MOT and more importantly let me see where I’m going at night down dark country lanes..

    First of all I will fit just one lamp leaving the existing Wipac unit with the halogen lamp in place and compare the beam pattern and brightens between the two. Then once I have driven it at night a few times, and I will even go as far as to have a friend drive towards me and give me his opinion , I will then give you guys my verdict , but if they do dazzle other road users , I will replace them with high power halogen lamps .
    Last edited by psh; 31-07-20 at 06:54 PM.
    Paul.

    AK Huddart Chevy 383 Stroker, BMW Royal Grey Metal Metallic , 5 speed Jaguar Getrag , Holley 670cfm 4 barrel street Avenger Carb, 450 BHP at flywheel , 460 Ibs/ft torque, and luvin it !

    " We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing" - George Bernard Shaw.

  5. #5
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    As far as I can tell the IVA regulations are based on the corresponding ECE regs. One thing to look at is Addendum 47: Regulation No. 48, this covers changes to the regs to catch up with LED lighting, DRLs, AFS etc. Now the ECE regs are type approval regs for new models and in my world that's what we have to follow, how it applies to the aftermarket is unclear. What we can say is that both the MOT and .gov pages you linked to are somewhat out of date for what is on the roads today. HID is now old technology that is dying out, LED is now more widely used. Construction and use regs and the UK lighting regs are similarly way behind the times with 1989 being the most recent update of the latter. One thing that is clear in the lighting regs is that no road user shall permit to be used on the road any lighting which dazzles other road users. Not sure where that leaves us TBH!
    Andy

    Ford 302 336 BHP 331 ft/lb's , GD JAG249 rolling!!
    Engine started August 2011.
    1st Daughter slows progress!

    www.andysgd427.blogspot.com

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy302 View Post
    As far as I can tell the IVA regulations are based on the corresponding ECE regs. One thing to look at is Addendum 47: Regulation No. 48, this covers changes to the regs to catch up with LED lighting, DRLs, AFS etc. Now the ECE regs are type approval regs for new models and in my world that's what we have to follow, how it applies to the aftermarket is unclear. What we can say is that both the MOT and .gov pages you linked to are somewhat out of date for what is on the roads today. HID is now old technology that is dying out, LED is now more widely used. Construction and use regs and the UK lighting regs are similarly way behind the times with 1989 being the most recent update of the latter. One thing that is clear in the lighting regs is that no road user shall permit to be used on the road any lighting which dazzles other road users. Not sure where that leaves us TBH!
    Think it means those bloody awful HID units can be sent to landfill.
    I hate people that use them.
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

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  7. #7
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    Kevin, you sent me a PM but I cant reply as your mailbox is full.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    Think it means those bloody awful HID units can be sent to landfill.
    I hate people that use them.
    /me pats the factory fitted HIDs in the BMW and Range Rover
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy302 View Post
    As far as I can tell the IVA regulations are based on the corresponding ECE regs. One thing to look at is Addendum 47: Regulation No. 48, this covers changes to the regs to catch up with LED lighting, DRLs, AFS etc. Now the ECE regs are type approval regs for new models and in my world that's what we have to follow, how it applies to the aftermarket is unclear. What we can say is that both the MOT and .gov pages you linked to are somewhat out of date for what is on the roads today. HID is now old technology that is dying out, LED is now more widely used. Construction and use regs and the UK lighting regs are similarly way behind the times with 1989 being the most recent update of the latter. One thing that is clear in the lighting regs is that no road user shall permit to be used on the road any lighting which dazzles other road users. Not sure where that leaves us TBH!
    Hi Andy, agreed the HID lamps guidelines I linked to were published on 1st May 2010, so are behind with regards to what’s currently on our roads today, but they are the latest published Government guild lines. However, I think you will agree, the MOT guidelines I linked to are pretty bang up to date as they were published on 30th October 2019.So although these regs definitely apply to new vehicles, as you say, LED’s are still a grey area, and how it applies to the aftermarket is still unclear.

    So I thought sod it, I want to be safe and be able to see where I am going on dark wet country roads and have now fitted the (Classic car LED) H4 led bulbs, along with Lucas head lamp units, which I know a few others are planning to fit and, and as Jon at AK rightly guessed, the examiner didn’t ask what type of bulbs are fitted, and my cobra passed the MOT with flying colours as the beam pattern was perfect.

    So as I have now driven the car quite a few times at night, as promised I said I would let you guys know how they performed, and to be honest the difference is amazing, as I no longer have two useless dim puddles of yellow light, instead I now have an evenly spread bright crisp perfect beam pattern, with a sharp cut off, which lights up the road a treat and not one single oncoming car flashed me. I even followed my wife who was in her Corsa, which is not a tall car, for many miles down an undulating country road and she said I did not dazzle or blind her once. So I am very pleased with my new lights and anything that makes driving our cobras safer, I think is money well spent.
    Paul.

    AK Huddart Chevy 383 Stroker, BMW Royal Grey Metal Metallic , 5 speed Jaguar Getrag , Holley 670cfm 4 barrel street Avenger Carb, 450 BHP at flywheel , 460 Ibs/ft torque, and luvin it !

    " We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing" - George Bernard Shaw.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Location
    West Sussex
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    Can you post a link to the exact product used? thanks.
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

    Not listed in the Shelby Register.

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