Dodgy Engine!!!

[Iain]

I don't know if I should be posting this so if I upset anyone then I am sorry (I don't want to get booted out but I do want to have a moan!)

If anyone has read the For Sale classifieds in Snake Torque (the last few issues) you will have seen the Ford 351 Cleveland engine for sale. Originally priced at £1500 but I bought it for £950 including a clutch and clutch plate. Anyway, not knowing anything about American V8 engines I pop up to see this chap (Terry Beeman from Morley in Leeds) and hand over my hard earned cash for this lump. He was very accomodating and fed me a story on why he was selling it. Anyway, to cut a long story short the engine is not as it was advertised. I have infact bought a Ford 400 (of the Cleveland family) which is a major drop on the 351 Cleveland as they were used as a work horse in American trucks. As I understand it there is lots of torque but bugger all bhp! I am also led to believe that getting parts to get this thing to do anything worth while is not easy in the UK.
The result is that if I don't get my money back from good old Terry I will be £1000 down the drain and a small claims court battle to go with it. Meanwhile non of this is helping my build or my wallet. Unfortunately my car is being built under a fairly tight budget and after all this agro it will probably wind up being shelved for a while.

The moral of this story is "If you don't know what you are buying then take someone with you who does." I learnt the hard way.

As a final note I thought you might like to know that this chap is (I believe) a member of the club. Buyers beware!!!!

[David]

I had a similar experience when I bought my Chevy 350. It was a Chevy 350 alright but it was not as advertized. I bought it in kit form, half built with some work still left to do but I stripped it down anyway. As a result I had the crank reground, gave it a rebore, changed the pistons, changed the heads, in fact I changed most of it. I did 'phone the chap I bought it from and he was quite simpathetic and told me that he would make a contribution towards getting the engine up to the advertized specification. I however did not pursue this as I totally changed the spec of the engine, and also I believed the chap did not really know what he was selling. However, I now have the engine I want, I have built it to my own spec for a reasonable amount of money. I have sought advice from numerous people from this web site regarding the engine build and I just hope it starts and runs OK.
As for buying something that was not as advertized, well I just put that down to experience.
The motto being, even if you are au fait with engines in general,(or anything else for that matter) but unfamiliar with a certain model or family of engines, seek advice before you buy! There are plenty of people on this web site and one probably fairly local to you that would only be to pleased to help.

Hi ,
I nearly bought a cleveland but I went onto the American cobra site and posted a thread asking "what is the difference between the windsor and the cleveland .
All the answers are there to see .
This internet is a wonderful thing all you have to do is ask , do your homework 1st before you part with your money.


Regards Steve

[RigMan]

You have my sympathies also! Conning unsuspecting people is unscrupulous indeed. The wise thing to do would have been to learn all you could on their casting numbers, that would have made identification easy. But that advise is no good to you now! Lok on the bright side though, most big blocks were all truck engines anyway, and thats what the Cobra often utilises anyway!

Best of luck

RigMan

[James]

>I don't know if I should be posting this so if I upset anyone then I
>am sorry (I don't want to get booted out but I do want to have a
>moan!)
>
>If anyone has read the For Sale classifieds in Snake Torque (the last
>few issues) you will have seen the Ford 351 Cleveland engine for sale.
>Originally priced at £1500 but I bought it for £950 including a clutch
>and clutch plate. Anyway, not knowing anything about American V8
>engines I pop up to see this chap (Terry Beeman from Morley in Leeds)
>and hand over my hard earned cash for this lump. He was very
>accomodating and fed me a story on why he was selling it. Anyway, to
>cut a long story short the engine is not as it was advertised. I have
>infact bought a Ford 400 (of the Cleveland family) which is a major
>drop on the 351 Cleveland as they were used as a work horse in
>American trucks. As I understand it there is lots of torque but bugger
>all bhp! I am also led to believe that getting parts to get this thing
>to do anything worth while is not easy in the UK.
>The result is that if I don't get my money back from good old Terry I
>will be £1000 down the drain and a small claims court battle to go
>with it. Meanwhile non of this is helping my build or my wallet.
>Unfortunately my car is being built under a fairly tight budget and
>after all this agro it will probably wind up being shelved for a
>while.
>
>The moral of this story is "If you don't know what you are buying then
>take someone with you who does." I learnt the hard way.
>
>As a final note I thought you might like to know that this chap is (I
>believe) a member of the club. Buyers beware!!!!

Hi Iain

Sorry to hear of your bad news
What was the issue with the Engine you bought
What did it turn out to be

Regards

James

[Iain]

It was (is) a Ford 400. Used in pickup trucks. The other 351 Cleveland bits I now own don't fit because it's bigger at the top. It has the same block as a 351M but has a larger stroke which makes it into the 400.

[tabram]

Hi Ian ... not all bad news .. have a look at Geoff Infields Ford v8 site and click on the American Hot Rod magazine . They get 382 hp / 456 1b of torque at 4,400 rpm ! all for 1,721 dollars . I brought mine intentionally as its cheaper than stroking a 350 . Good luck .....mike tab.

[osgood]

Yes I know Iain had the same problem with yet another Wallie in the Cobra Club some years ago. He advertised a 3.54:1 LSD Jaguar diff which he maintained had been in his car for twelve years Had it picked up from up top (north of Watford!) by Wards couriers, the first hurdle was he did not drain the oil from the unit which promptly spilled its guts all over the floor of the couriers van (not a happy bunny!) Second problem was it was not what was advertised, it turned out to be a totally standard unit, no good to man nor beast! Naturally the idiot did not want it back and after a lot of pissi-g around and phone calls & faxes between Wards and myself & the seller I got my money back after six weeks less 50 quid for the duff unit.

The moral in the story is all that glitters in the Cobra Club & on this site is not necessarily gold Osgood Best of luck Iain take the bas-ed to small claims!!

[craigh]

do you have the 351c heads? i think they were pretty good and might be of use to someone to get you some money back,if so post up the casting numbers and find out

[grahamf]

The 351M/400 doesn't seem to be a poor as people make out. The problem is they're about 1" taller than the 351C, but share parts with that engine (ie camshaft). I've used Desktop dyno with the engine specs and it turns out a large amount of bottom end torque. I'll let you know when I get the bits from across the pond, build and test it.
Graham