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  1. #531
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Through the Darien Gap
    Posts
    1,069
    As skinnymathew said, no need to pull the distributor out. Just rotate the body so that the vacuum can clears the header tank and reassign your plug leads either CW or CCW (as appropriate) around the cap to nominate a new #1 cylinder position. QED.
    Steve Brown

    CRC Regional Rep - East Anglia

  2. #532
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,783
    Ah man, I had a nice long reply written earlier - and when attempting to post the forum went AWOL.. for me; obviously it's still up, but from the home WiFi I can no longer connect (to be specific for the nerds in the audience - the SYNs go unacknowledged, so I assume I've been bitten by some kind of automatic Denial of Service protection)..

    So, I had nicely quoted replies for people that are now gone, so you'll have to put up with me replying to you all en masse moving the distributor round seems to be the best option - the header tank would need to move a long way forward to clear it, having checked tonight. I have a degree (pardon the pun!) of trepidation there as I don't want to completely ruin the timing - I do have a timing light etc but Clive did set it all up for me. Still, the theory is simple, it's just been 20 years since I touched a distributor!

    My brake reservoir is still leaking from the 'added' nipple on the side for the clutch, so that needs fixing, although it's leaking more slowly now at least.. and I found a couple of weeping brake unions that I've nipped up tonight, fingers crossed that's the system water-tight now.

    Rejigged oil lines and started putting the other bits back on the engine - coil, etc. Edging closer.

    Next up I need to sort a ground strap, fuel lines, and make sure a few fittings are sealed up, then get the header tank on.


    Oh - Kev - yes, the header tank cap is original! I need to replace that...
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  3. #533
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
    Posts
    1,697
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    Ah man, I had a nice long reply written earlier - and when attempting to post the forum went AWOL.. for me; obviously it's still up, but from the home WiFi I can no longer connect (to be specific for the nerds in the audience - the SYNs go unacknowledged, so I assume I've been bitten by some kind of automatic Denial of Service protection)..

    So, I had nicely quoted replies for people that are now gone, so you'll have to put up with me replying to you all en masse moving the distributor round seems to be the best option - the header tank would need to move a long way forward to clear it, having checked tonight. I have a degree (pardon the pun!) of trepidation there as I don't want to completely ruin the timing - I do have a timing light etc but Clive did set it all up for me. Still, the theory is simple, it's just been 20 years since I touched a distributor!

    My brake reservoir is still leaking from the 'added' nipple on the side for the clutch, so that needs fixing, although it's leaking more slowly now at least.. and I found a couple of weeping brake unions that I've nipped up tonight, fingers crossed that's the system water-tight now.

    Rejigged oil lines and started putting the other bits back on the engine - coil, etc. Edging closer.

    Next up I need to sort a ground strap, fuel lines, and make sure a few fittings are sealed up, then get the header tank on.


    Oh - Kev - yes, the header tank cap is original! I need to replace that...
    If you are worried about the timing I'm sure one of us would pop up with a timing light and help you out, I assume you have the timing pointer fitted and the pully suitably marked.
    As for vac timing I bu&&ered about for months with mine, it was on and off more times than I care to remember. In the end got it sorted and it does make a difference to running in traffic, slow running etc, which we do a lot of in this country. It wasn't really necessary once up and to a decent rpm and speed, but defo made a difference to starting and slow running, pulling away without having to use the revs more.

  4. #534
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    9,496
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblock View Post
    If you are worried about the timing I'm sure one of us would pop up with a timing light and help you out, I assume you have the timing pointer fitted and the pully suitably marked.
    As for vac timing I bu&&ered about for months with mine, it was on and off more times than I care to remember. In the end got it sorted and it does make a difference to running in traffic, slow running etc, which we do a lot of in this country. It wasn't really necessary once up and to a decent rpm and speed, but defo made a difference to starting and slow running, pulling away without having to use the revs more.
    ...and that's what f*cked me over for a very long time. Had to time mine on the vac gauge in the end.
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

    Not listed in the Shelby Register.

  5. #535
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Reading, Berks, UK.
    Posts
    1,697
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    ...and that's what f*cked me over for a very long time. Had to time mine on the vac gauge in the end.
    The pointer is a very good base method to get started, after all its been used by I would say every motor manufacturer going. Its also the easiest way to get the timing in and car going, and with the majority of std and mild tunes its also pretty good I have found over the years. There will always be a slight amount of real time tuning, ie rolling road or just running it and see how it feels, but to get it up and running the pointer is just fine.

    Over the years when I had the classic car resto business I have lost count of the engine rebuilds we did, and stuck them on a rolling road because the owners said it would be the only way to get the exact timing, ignition carbs etc set up. Carbs was almost a defo, and nearly always over jetted and too rich because the owners just thought they should be bigger, but on a mild state of tune we used to hand the cars back and ask the owners what they thought, " oh runs much better, I can really tell its been adjusted a lot" and in a lot of cases we could say " well its running the std timing" with a grin. Fast forward couple months and the cars was back. " Its running terrible, don't know what you have done" " my mate said it should be blah, blah advance/retard not std so we adjusted it" Take it out for as run, yep dreadful, bring it back, put the timing back to what it was, usually around manufactures spec or a degree her or there and perfect, nice idle, no over heating. Never usually saw them again. In the day it was the grubby book and hear say gang, now its the google gang, but much the same .

    Sorry I digress, I'm sure Aaron will let us know what he has.

  6. #536
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Shipston-On-Stour
    Posts
    618
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblock View Post
    The pointer is a very good base method to get started, after all its been used by I would say every motor manufacturer going. Its also the easiest way to get the timing in and car going, and with the majority of std and mild tunes its also pretty good I have found over the years. There will always be a slight amount of real time tuning, ie rolling road or just running it and see how it feels, but to get it up and running the pointer is just fine.

    Over the years when I had the classic car resto business I have lost count of the engine rebuilds we did, and stuck them on a rolling road because the owners said it would be the only way to get the exact timing, ignition carbs etc set up. Carbs was almost a defo, and nearly always over jetted and too rich because the owners just thought they should be bigger, but on a mild state of tune we used to hand the cars back and ask the owners what they thought, " oh runs much better, I can really tell its been adjusted a lot" and in a lot of cases we could say " well its running the std timing" with a grin. Fast forward couple months and the cars was back. " Its running terrible, don't know what you have done" " my mate said it should be blah, blah advance/retard not std so we adjusted it" Take it out for as run, yep dreadful, bring it back, put the timing back to what it was, usually around manufactures spec or a degree her or there and perfect, nice idle, no over heating. Never usually saw them again. In the day it was the grubby book and hear say gang, now its the google gang, but much the same .

    Sorry I digress, I'm sure Aaron will let us know what he has.
    Agreed. Anyway no two engines are the same. My dad never used a timing light. He always did it by ear. Sometimes I would check with a light and he was always right and if it wasn't 'right' the car went slower if I messed with it. So I gave up!
    Dax with 1964 Dual Quad 427 and Toploader box

  7. #537
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    9,496
    I wasn't knocking the timing light, point was that if the timing light was right, then I'm running at 40+ degrees on idle.
    I'd set it to the standard timing specs and wouldn't fire. Timing on the vac gauge has been trouble-free by comparison.
    (Yes, I know I could measure TDC and put new timing marks on).
    Crendon Chassis No.49
    Huddart FE428 + toploader

    Not listed in the Shelby Register.

  8. #538
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Cambridge
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,227
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    I wasn't knocking the timing light, point was that if the timing light was right, then I'm running at 40+ degrees on idle.
    I'd set it to the standard timing specs and wouldn't fire. Timing on the vac gauge has been trouble-free by comparison.
    (Yes, I know I could measure TDC and put new timing marks on).
    When I was first getting my engine running unbeknown to me my damper came with TWO marks, one at TDC, and another really helpfully at 34° (standard "safe" all in timing figure). As an engine noob how the BEEEEEP are you supposed to know that? Guess which one I set it up to, giving me 46° at idle wondering why it kept kicking backwards while trying to fire... ffs

    I then since learned about the concept of setting the engine up for what it wants (wave the dizzy around and look for max vacuum on idle) rather than going for an arbitrary number


    ...and relax

  9. #539
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,783
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblock View Post
    Sorry I digress, I'm sure Aaron will let us know what he has.
    Right now I still mostly have an inability to get to the forum (I'm having to go via America right now..), grr. Anyhow!

    I have a timing light and the manual (from the engine builder) gives me timing specs to aim for etc, so I'm confident* I could at least get it back to a point where it would fire up, even if it wasn't perfect..

    Just musing how best to fix the leaking brake reservoir and get the header tank to fit nicely at the moment - I actually disappeared down a rabbit hole looking for a slightly different style (66> rather than 60-65) header that would give me a bit of extra clearance to the bonnet because the cap is at the 'back' rather than the front when rotated. They're available new from autokrafters.com but holy hell, $250 and I'd still need to dismantle it to turn it around..
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  10. #540
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northampton
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,783
    Hurrah! I can get back on the forum.. anyway, a fellow on Instagram sent me this picture the other day - sadly he doesn't know where the header tank came from as it was already on his car at purchase (along with the 427 S/O..):



    Note the position of the filler cap (toward the rear) - I can't find one like that anywhere, the closest I've seen is the 66 Thunderbird which would have the cap rear left once rotated around (rather than rear right): https://www.autokrafters.com/p-9222-...6sz-8a080.aspx

    Anyway.. I will rotate the dizzy and possibly add a small spacer before I get into spending more money.
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

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