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  1. #11
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Barnes View Post
    after all 400hp is common in cars and even 4x4s these days)
    Yeah, it doesn't sound quite so impressive to say "400hp from 7 litres" when modern cars are putting out the same power with probably half the capacity.. at least to average joe. *goes off to check*

    Audi SQ7, 500hp & nearly 600lb/ft from under 4L.. heck, the hybrid is 450hp from a 3L V6.

    I know which one I'd rather be driving.. well, apart from today when it's sub zero outside, then I think the SQ7 might have the edge on comfort (and grip)! (He says, putting off going down the garage..)
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  2. #12
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    Nov 2006
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    Shropshire/Wales Border
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    6,079
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronjb View Post
    Yeah, it doesn't sound quite so impressive to say "400hp from 7 litres" when modern cars are putting out the same power with probably half the capacity.. at least to average joe. *goes off to check*

    Audi SQ7, 500hp & nearly 600lb/ft from under 4L.. heck, the hybrid is 450hp from a 3L V6.

    I know which one I'd rather be driving.. well, apart from today when it's sub zero outside, then I think the SQ7 might have the edge on comfort (and grip)! (He says, putting off going down the garage..)
    True, although I do remember comparing a dyno sheet for the Dax with one for a friends breathed on Impreza. Broadly similar peak power but oh boy could you see where the cubic inches counted. His engine was hopeless at lower revs. The 383s readout was a much broader curve. We do tend to get over fixated on a single peak figure.
    Lloyd B
    Current: Crendon #54 in build - 427 Side Oiler/Cobrajet Heads/Dual 600cfm Holleys/4 speed toploader/Vintage cast knock on wheels
    Dedion Dax/Clarkson 383 Chevy with roller 4/7 swap cam, AFR195 heads - SOLD

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Nova Scotia
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    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Barnes View Post
    True, although I do remember comparing a dyno sheet for the Dax with one for a friends breathed on Impreza. Broadly similar peak power but oh boy could you see where the cubic inches counted. His engine was hopeless at lower revs. The 383s readout was a much broader curve. We do tend to get over fixated on a single peak figure.
    Yes, I have often thought that for a street engine, HP throughout the range is more important than peak Hp. I made up a representation below. One can see all the extra Hp the big block has in green. The small block does have a higher peak; in orange, but it's of short duration over the engine range. So for two identical cars, both weighing the same (pretend the BB is aluminum...), the BB car will out accelerate the small block car up to a point. After that the SB car will have a higher top speed.

    I sort of find it amusing when someone asks "How fast is it?" because; Do they mean max top speed, or how quick one can try to get there?

    John

    “A prudent person profits from personal experience, a wise one from the experience of others.”

  4. #14
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    Feb 2011
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    Oh yes - I agree with you both and most car people know that; the power delivery of a highly strung turbocharged 4-pot vs a V8 is totally different even if the peak numbers are the same (or even swung in favour of the turbo engine). Very different to drive too - one is effortless and lazy and the other one is going to need you to drive it like you stole it all the time Or maybe that was just me in the MR2?
    My DeDion build diary..
    Hon Sec of the Digidash branch of the Unpopular Kit Car Design club

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Marlow
    Age
    70
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    1,863
    Basically what you need is torque!!!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Maldon Essex
    Posts
    546
    Yes, torque is king really. I used to drive a 1957 Jensen 541, it only had 140 or so BHP and I don't even know what torque it put out but is was a 4 litre straight 6 and it used to pull from nothing. I would not normally use 1st gear, it was just not needed and its real world performance meant that it was more than a match for many more modern cars.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
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    1,160
    The pure power race has already been won... electric is where thats at: Tesla Model S - 1100bhp 0-60 in 2.6 secs & a range of 400+ miles... Even £50ks worth of model 3 is quicker up to a ton than a mates Mclaren 650.

    And yet... they are as interesting as a dishwasher...

    Pick an engine based on the feel you want rather than one for a pure BHP or torque figure. Don't forget the chaps at TVR's lied about BHP & performance figures for decades without anyone really caring because their cars sounded and felt fantastic. I even think as much as LS engines are are awesome... carbs on a oily old big block, or a fords firing order, or a cammy rover has the edge for me.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    211
    Very interesting reading this, my baby V8 has always meant to be a stepping stone to something bigger, but whatever it is will have to be usable power. Like they say; bhp sells cars, torque wins you races.
    Thanks,

    Grumbleweed

    If you're not meant to eat animals, how come they're made of meat!?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford Essex
    Posts
    1,668
    My thoughts .
    Big block 427 with ali heads vs a stroked 351w both 427. Would they be the same if its just down to cubic capacity ? A longer stroke over a shorter short stroke with larger bore diameter. The small block with have a better weight ratio over a big block but they do sound very different. You can tell the difference is tick over and revving through the bands.

    The power bands are in different areas depending on the stroke and bore diameter. The 427 FE vs 428 FE is the usual comparison. The 427 FE was used for oval circuits and higher rev bands. The 428 would be better as a street car with better low end torque?

    The 427FE would be the gold standard for authenticity but at a considerable price over a 428 FE.
    John Desz

    Essex & Herts Area Rep. UKCC

    Dax 351 Cleveland T5 2.88 PL

    Events posted and meeting updates follow Face Book.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/170236225077355

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